Questions about building my first bike

[lulubel]

After a lot of discussion in this thread about frames and this thread about handbuilt wheels, I've decided to go ahead and build myself a bike using a new frameset and mostly used components, and also build my own wheels. I'm obviously up for a challenge!

The frame I've chosen is the Surly Cross Check (was originally planning on a Condor Fratello, but my financial situation has changed somewhat, and not for the better, so it's back to plan A).

The first thing I need to do (and something I know nothing about) is buy a headset for my new frame. The specification on Surly's site is Headset/Stem: 1-1/8" threadless. I don't want to spend a fortune on a headset, but don't want to end up with something "cheap and nasty" either. Would something like this Cane Creek 40 series be suitable? (Having looked more carefully on Surly's site, I think this may be the headset they use when they sell the complete bike.)

More beginner questions to follow ....

 

[Kestevan]

I'd recommend getting the frame/headset/forks as a single built package if possible. Fitting a headset can be "interesting" if you dont have easy access to the right tools.

Crane Creek headsets are pretty standard fit on a lot of bikes - lower end, but decent kit I believe.

 

[lulubel]

I'd recommend getting the frame/headset/forks as a single built package if possible. Fitting a headset can be "interesting" if you dont have easy access to the right tools.

Thanks. I'm trying to find a supplier that will fit it for me. But I still need to choose a headset, and then find a supplier that stocks the frame and my chosen headset, and will fit it for me. I understand Wiggle have done it in the past, but they now say it invalidates the warranty.

That was what I thought about Cane Creek. My entry level Trek road bike and also my partner's bike have Cane Creek headsets, and they haven't caused us any problems, which was what drew me to the brand. They seem reliable and inexpensive.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Thanks. I'm trying to find a supplier that will fit it for me. But I still need to choose a headset, and then find a supplier that stocks the frame and my chosen headset, and will fit it for me. I understand Wiggle have done it in the past, but they now say it invalidates the warranty.

Do they mean the headset is under warranty until it is fitted?

 

[Crackle]

You've gone for the x Check <surprise>. Well, the Condor was expensive.

That headset looks fine. Unless Surly specify something like a no rise headset, which I don't think they do, then any 11/8 headset will do.

On fitting it, look at a couple of vids on youtube and decide if you want to have a go. You can do it with a home-made press and you can do it with no more than a mallet and a screwdriver but you'll need to be pretty deft and confident with the latter. If it all arrives separately and you don't fancy a go, then it's the one job which I'd say take it to the LBS. That said Ahead headsets, even if you don't quite fit them right, can be adjusted easily if they bed in mid-ride, you just need an Allen key.

 

[lulubel]

Do they mean the headset is under warranty until it is fitted?

They said both frame and headset, so presumably they mean the warranty only applies to the parts sold as parts rather than as parts-put-together-by-supplier. Whether it's true or not, they obviously don't want to do it, so I'm not going to pester them.

You've gone for the x Check <surprise>. Well, the Condor was expensive.

I had an unexpected and totally unrelated bill yesterday that's changed things rather (and was also the reason why I've got serious about building wheels), so the Condor's now out of the running. I'm just glad it was before I placed the order rather than after!

That headset looks fine. Unless Surly specify something like a no rise headset, which I don't think they do, then any 11/8 headset will do.

On fitting it, look at a couple of vids on youtube and decide if you want to have a go. You can do it with a home-made press and you can do it with no more than a mallet and a screwdriver but you'll need to be pretty deft and confident with the latter. If it all arrives separately and you don't fancy a go, then it's the one job which I'd say take it to the LBS. That said Ahead headsets, even if you don't quite fit them right, can be adjusted easily if they bed in mid-ride, you just need an Allen key.

Ahead headset, like this FSA Orbit? Would that do the job? (I used to be a carpenter, so I don't have any excuse for not being able to operate a screwdriver!) I think the one on my old bike is Ahead, and I did tighten that mid-ride when the lbs had left it too loose, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with them. I'd just heard a lot of people saying they're difficult to fit, and that put me off.

 

[Crackle]

Ahead headset, like this FSA Orbit? Would that do the job? (I used to be a carpenter, so I don't have any excuse for not being able to operate a screwdriver!) I think the one on my old bike is Ahead, and I did tighten that mid-ride when the lbs had left it too loose, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with them. I'd just heard a lot of people saying they're difficult to fit, and that put me off.

I haven't bought one for some time, so, probably like you, I would just google some top ten headset tests. FSA are a reputable make.

Difficult is all relative. The bloke who sold me a star nut the other day was adamant I'd never get it in without the special tool as he never had. It was easy though. Headsets are an interference fit which means you have to press them into place and that is why people find them difficult. On older frames which have 'spread' a little, you might need shims but on a new frame you won't face those problems. If you're confident you can 'persuade' something in without damaging it and can hit something with a bit of feel, you can do it. On Sheldon's website he talks about using a hammer and screwdriver to fit a fork crown bearing, so if he advises it can be done, it can be done. Of course if you slip, then you'll scratch the bearing face, so you need to know your own abilities. The home made press is pretty easy to make for pressing in the upper and lower cups and it's all on Google how to do it.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

FSA Orbit MX for £50 at Wiggle! Why not CRC for £25? Actually the PIG for about half the price is a super reliable/durable piece of kit, but heavier though.

These prices are not unusual (MX for £20 is not unusual...). If you could help it you might want to figure everything out before ordering, in case there is knock on effect from changes.

 

[lulubel]

I haven't bought one for some time, so, probably like you, I would just google some top ten headset tests. FSA are a reputable make.

If you're confident you can 'persuade' something in without damaging it and can hit something with a bit of feel, you can do it.

"Hit it with a hammer" is a fairly common carpentry technique - and not just where it applies to nails. If I can be subtle enough to hammer softwood like pine into place without damaging it, I must have a fair degree of feel.

FSA Orbit MX for £50 at Wiggle! Why not CRC for £25? Actually the PIG for about half the price is a super reliable/durable piece of kit, but heavier though.

I was looking for ideas, not best prices. That comes next

I looked at the PIG, and was quite tempted when I noticed a reviewer saying he'd used it with "my" frame. But I know I'm buying quite a heavy frame, so I think I need to keep the component weights down or I'll never get it moving!

 

[simon.r]

I've fitted a fair few headsets with nothing more specialised in the way of tools than a tub of grease, a lump of 4" x 4" timber and a lumphammer. Grease inside of headtube - position headset cup on headtube - place lump of wood over headset - hit lump of wood with hammer (start gently and hit harder if it doesn't go in!)

I''m currently using M Part (cheap and cheerful) and On-One (not as cheap) headsets and there doesn't seem to be anything between them in terms of performance.​

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I was looking for ideas, not best prices. That comes next

Thought you were economising . Perhaps the first thing is to figure out what must be bought for what total budget? Am not sure what your donor bike is and what were smashed up, but common incompatible fitments include front mech (diameter/type), seatpost (diameter), seatpost clamp (diameter), chain (length), brakes (drop/type), forks (steerer length) etc. especially given some components have knock-on effect on each other e.g. bb <> chainset <> front mech profile, not to mention individual expense has on remaining budget - I will happily spend £500+ on wheels, but have never understood what a £30+ headset gives anybody . First thing to buy might well be a vernier, if you haven't got one.

Was the donor's headset smashed up?

 

[smokeysmoo]

FWIW when I bought my Ribble frameset at Christmas they wouldn't sell it me until they had fitted the headset. I wasn't fussed as it made it one less job for me to do.
Surely your frame/fork supplier can supply and fit a headset can't they?

 

[lulubel]

Thought you were economising . Perhaps the first thing is to figure out what must be bought for what total budget? Am not sure what your donor bike is and what were smashed up, but common incompatible fitments include front mech (diameter/type), seatpost (diameter), seatpost clamp (diameter), chain (length), brakes (drop/type), forks (steerer length) etc. especially given some components have knock-on effect on each other e.g. bb <> chainset <> front mech profile, not to mention individual expense has on remaining budget - I will happily spend £500+ on wheels, but have never understood what a £30+ headset gives anybody . First thing to buy might well be a vernier, if you haven't got one.

Was the donor's headset smashed up?

It isn't that there's a total budget as such, mainly that I can't justify spending £630 on a frame when I can get one that's more flexible in terms of what it can be used for, and very well reviewed, for half the price.

I'n buying a frameset, so the forks are included. The steerer is uncut, so it can be as long or short as I want.

My old headset wasn't smashed up, but it was left loose after a service at the lbs and I didn't realise for 500 miles or so, so I'm not going to try and reuse it. In any case, after 4 years in there, it would probably be well and truly smashed up by the time I got it out.

The old seatpost is carbon, and my saddle has a scuff on one side, so the seatpost may be damaged. I won't risk reusing it. I also won't bother with a carbon seatpost in a steel frame, so the replacement won't be expensive. The seatpost clamp is included with the frame and takes a 27.2mm seatpost.

According to Sheldon Brown's database, I think I need a 118mm ISIS type bb to fit my Bontrager triple crankset, so something like this to fit the Surly frame. But that's something I was going to ask about once I'd sorted out my headset choice because I'm not certain.

No idea about the front mech. I'll find out when the frame gets here if the one I have will fit. If not, I'll be replacing it with a similar inexpensive one. I think I currently have a braze on, and I'm going to need a band on. If that's the case, I know I can get an adapter, but for the sake of a 4 year old front mech, I might as well replace it.

And I've got a brand new, unused chain sitting in a box somewhere - I bought it just before we moved, didn't put it on the bike and haven't found it yet!

I couldn't see the point in spending £500+ on wheels, and certainly not to put them on a £300 frame, when wheels that are less than half that price will still go round and won't fall apart, but we're all different, and getting opinions from so many different people is one of the things that's so great about asking for advice on a forum.

 

[lulubel]

I've fitted a fair few headsets with nothing more specialised in the way of tools than a tub of grease, a lump of 4" x 4" timber and a lumphammer. Grease inside of headtube - position headset cup on headtube - place lump of wood over headset - hit lump of wood with hammer (start gently and hit harder if it doesn't go in!)

I''m currently using M Part (cheap and cheerful) and On-One (not as cheap) headsets and there doesn't seem to be anything between them in terms of performance.​

Seems like a fairly common technique, then

What kind of life are you getting out of the M Part headsets? It's something I'd like to replace as close to never as possible!

 

[lulubel]

FWIW when I bought my Ribble frameset at Christmas they wouldn't sell it me until they had fitted the headset. I wasn't fussed as it made it one less job for me to do.
Surely your frame/fork supplier can supply and fit a headset can't they?

Apparently not, if I buy it from Wiggle, which I may or may not do, depending on where I buy other components from. One thing Wiggle have in their favour is the speed of their (free) shipping to Spain is only beaten by Amazon.

I wouldn't mind doing it, anyway. I expect the frame to outlast the headset by a long time, so knowing how it went in will be useful when I need to take it out to replace it.