Racing lines round corners

[smutchin]

Similar epiphany here. On a very, very steep mountain pass I was overtaken by a cycling pro (who I knew very well) and his then girlfriend on a tandem at what I estimate to have been 90kph. It is purely subjective but I was doing 60-odd and they passed me very,very quickly. There was no Strava in those days and all I could glean was that their computer showed a maximum of 90-something for that day's ride. It must have bee where they passed me.
On approaching a very sharp turn followoing that downhill they whisked around it whilst I hit the brakes. Even if they did brake hard and late, tandems just don't slow down that quickly and I could see the way the tandem leaned into the corner that it was still going fast. That's when I realised there are different leagues in cornering. They were way above me.

Reminds me of a descent we would tackle regularly in the group I used to ride with - nothing like the same kind of speeds as the descent was too short, but it was pretty steep (around 15% at a guess) as well as being very narrow, and had a sharp bend halfway down. One of the chaps in the group was in his 60s but had been a pretty useful racer in his youth. I would try to follow him on that descent but he was always able to brake much later (if he was braking at all), taking much more of his speed into the bend and leaning over much further than I dared. I found it terrifying just watching him.

 

[nickyboy]

Similar epiphany here. On a very, very steep mountain pass I was overtaken by a cycling pro (who I knew very well) and his then girlfriend on a tandem at what I estimate to have been 90kph. It is purely subjective but I was doing 60-odd and they passed me very,very quickly. There was no Strava in those days and all I could glean was that their computer showed a maximum of 90-something for that day's ride. It must have bee where they passed me.
On approaching a very sharp turn followoing that downhill they whisked around it whilst I hit the brakes. Even if they did brake hard and late, tandems just don't slow down that quickly and I could see the way the tandem leaned into the corner that it was still going fast. That's when I realised there are different leagues in cornering. They were way above me.
It also made me think long and hard about tyre grip in such situations and I went on to do some professional studying on the topic. We all corner way below the capability of the tyre's grip. There is so much grip available but it is a difficult entity to exploit. We lack courage, skill and sensory interpretation to do it right. Those who do it right can't describe what it is they do but the one common denominator I found is that all of them learnt it whilst young. It seems that you cannot acquire the skill later in life.

And these days you can get a fair idea of the gap between pros and amateurs descending on Strava. Some big races around here (TdF, ToB, TdY) so quite a few descents have been tackled by the pros on Strava. I descend reasonably fast and am always near the top of the descent leaderboards. But the pros blow the best descent times out of the water, even without a tailwind. I'm sure the knowledge that there's no traffic helps, but they are a different league all together

 

[jamma]

So maybe my target fixation bit then?

Out of interest Jamma, who is your coach do we know him?

Coach is Harry tanfield ride for bike channel canyon was one of the best elite riders last year

 

[screenman]

Coach is Harry tanfield ride for bike channel canyon was one of the best elite riders last year

Nice one, I did not know he had coaching qualifications,

 

[jamma]

Nice one, I did not know he had coaching qualifications,

he doesn't but with his help i have managed to hit some of my targets with his help and training which i wouldn't have done if i was by myself.

 

[S-Express]

he doesn't but with his help i have managed to hit some of my targets with his help and training which i wouldn't have done if i was by myself.

Presumably this is an informal/ad-hoc arrangement, and you are not paying for his services as such?

 

[Justinslow]

he doesn't but with his help i have managed to hit some of my targets with his help and training which i wouldn't have done if i was by myself.

You stick with it @jamma, fair play, everyone started as a beginner, people seem to forget this, ignore the sarcastic comments, at least you are trying.

 

[Justinslow]

Presumably this is an informal/ad-hoc arrangement, and you are not paying for his services as such?

I'd say that had bugger all to do with you.

 

[S-Express]

I'd say that had bugger all to do with you.

Your opinion is noted - and disregarded.

The reason for asking is that qualified/registered coaches are covered under indemnity/liability insurance either via BC or ABCC and if there is a financial arrangement, then there is usually a service level provision in return. So you see, it's a perfectly valid question for someone who has an understanding of the topic.

 

[Bollo]

Your opinion is noted - and disregarded.

The reason for asking is that qualified/registered coaches are covered under indemnity/liability insurance either via BC or ABCC and if there is a financial arrangement, then there is usually a service level provision in return. So you see, it's a perfectly valid question for someone who has an understanding of the topic.

Just about to make the same point, but without your famously direct approach.

The danger here is for Harry Tanfield, who could find himself in a spot of bother if someone from BC wanders on to this page (unlikely, but not impossible).

 

[S-Express]

The danger here is for Harry Tanfield, who could find himself in a spot of bother if someone from BC wanders on to this page (unlikely, but not impossible).

I don't think there's any law against it as such, just that if Jamma keels over and croaks as a result of one of his training sessions, who is responsible?

 

[bikingdad90]

The thread is about cornering on Prissick Road Circuit under race conditions. I am very happy to here @jamma is racing and looking to improve.

Perhaps try and go down to track when it isn't booked and experiment with different lines? It's a great track and forgive the journalistic puns, pushes you round and makes you want to go harder and faster each lap.

 

[Bollo]

I'll put it out there. My problem with jamma's posts is that I'm still not entirely sure they're a windup. They always follow the same pattern - a post with a question that is usually naive and often borderline credible, without useful detail or any follow up. People take the time to answer and encourage in good faith, but usually don't get any feedback, thanks or even a 'like'. Follow-on questions are usually ignored. He then disappears for a few months to reappear with a new thread and new scenario.

OK - let's assume jamma is for real for a moment. If you're falling off the track with the frequency you describe, YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON THERE! I'm surprised you weren't kicked off the race. You're a danger to other riders. If I remember one of your other threads with some other issue about riding in groups, I gave the same advice, but you'd gone again by then.

But, the mystery circuit that's now closed for new footy pitches (is it? - can't find anything on the web), the coach-who-isn't story, the '10th place finish' after stuffing the fence all sound like gravy to me. I'm out.

 

[HLaB]

View attachment 355657

That needs a photoshop, the Original Poster goes straight on and the other people go the other direction and don't crash into the Fence

@jamma
, its maybe been said on the other pages I haven't trawled through; you are maybe breaking too late and too hard on the front, locking up and going straight on. When breaking before the bend, leaning through it and powering out of it is better.

 

[S-Express]

, its maybe been said on the other pages I haven't trawled through; you are maybe breaking too late and too hard on the front, locking up and going straight on. When breaking before the bend, leaning through it and powering out of it is better.

Seriously, after looking at that video - there's no braking needed, it should be possible to ride through there on full gas. The only way it would be possible to end up on the grass on that corner is

a) if he had been on the wrong side of someone's wheel as they went wide, or
b) if he'd had his eyes shut

I know I made some lighthearted comments about 4th cat riding in response to that video, but to be fair, none of them seem to be having even the slightest trouble in getting round safely. In conclusion, I'll just refer to @Bollo's post #78 and leave it at that.