Raleigh in trouble.

[Andy in Germany]

The 4130 Max Cromo (not to be confused with the mere Max range) frames were superb and lingered until the late 90s, but were foreign designed and made.

As far as I can find, and there seems to be very little information, the M-Trax range was originally to market titanium frames: apparently they had lugged joints because they didn't have the technology to weld them, or something. Chromoly was introduced later, but I recall being told the company was a kind of subsidiary of Raleigh and built their frames in Nottingham.

It was apparently a relatively short-lived venture; I'm guessing it was closed down and all production moved overseas.

I remember the Max frames: I very nearly bought one. Fortunately, Shepherd's Cycles in Wellington had this bike in their shop and wanted to sell it off. It was 300GBP: at the time, not just the most expensive bike I'd ever owned, but the most expensive item of any kind I'd bought.

We very occasionally get abandoned and/or "donated" Raleigh bikes here. Unfortunately the descriptions above often ring true; they also often look a little dated.

 

[tyred]

But the Lenton represented the top 1% of the range, better materials and components, often with bespoke options, and more artisanal approach to their production. They were not representative of the typical Raleigh product.

The rest was badly mass built rubbish unfit to be used as boat anchors or garden gates.

Before my time, but I collect and restore old bikes and I don't think that's true at all. Raleigh 3 speed sports bikes of the '50s and '60s are very nice bikes to ride. My 1958 Raleigh Trent Sports with 4 speed Cyclo-Benelux is lovely to ride once you master the knack of using a primitive derailleur.

The rod braked roadsters were tough and durable and designed to be give many years of faithful service to people who just wanted to get to work or whatever. To say they're not as good as the top of the range stuff is like saying a Morris Minor isn't as good as a E-Type Jag. Maybe not, but not everyone has bottomless pockets and most people just want something that works reliably without spending a fortune.

I often ride my Grandfather's 1951 28" wheeled Rudge. It's not a racing bike, but was never meant to be. It's relaxing to ride and has original hubs, bb and headset bearings with barely a trace of wear. After 75 years, it can still do what it was designed to do. I've done fifty or sixty mile rides on it. To say it is unfit to be used smacks of incredible snobbishness. Not everyone can afford, or even wants or needs a high end racing bike.

 

[brommieinkorea]

I know of no other brand (bicycle or otherwise) whose reputation for quality so exceeded the reality. A lot of people bought them because that was the only brand name they knew. But that was based on information (if it was ever true) that was decades out of date.

I remember attending big bike industry trade shows in the 80's and 90"s and the Raleigh reps swaggering around in their black shirts like they owned the joint, sneering at all the other brands. Supreme arrogance. They really did believe they were head and shoulders superior to everyone else. It was almost cult like.

I remember a Raleigh rep commenting on the very first mountain bike on display in the window of FW Evans in Waterloo. He scoffed at it. "farking ugly heavy piece of shoot, they'll never catch on. Only a moron would buy one! "

I remember going into a Raleigh dealer a couple of years later, long after it was obvious that Raleigh had missed the MTB boat, to nose around, asking if they had any mountain bikes for sale and being shown a Raleigh Bomber. The salesman insisting that yes indeed, this is a mountain bike. With it's steel sidepull brakes, 3 speed hub and Post Office bike derived frame...

I remember Raleigh selling the employees of Strurmey Archer down the river.

I remember Raleigh selling the employees of Brooks down the river. Thankfully they landed on their feet, but no thanks to Raleigh management.

I worked for a company in York for over a decade. We supplied whole fleets of commuter bikes to companies and local authorities for schemes to get people out of their cars. But we were a bit disruptive to the bike trade ecology because we'd sweep in and buy 100 or 200 bikes at a time. So we had to have multiple suppliers; Trek, Dawes, Kona, Ridgeback. Sometimes, and against my protestations, we'd buy bikes from Raleigh. They were universally terrible. Took twice as long to build and had really awful quality issues. When other companies were having their bikes built in Taiwan Raleigh went to Cambodia or Pakistan. Don't get me wrong. Im a fan of inexpensive bikes. But I'm not a fan of companies who peddle sh!te.

The big question for me is how they managed to survive for so long.

Like i always say, the only good Raleigh is one at the bottom of a body of water. Preferably a canal.

This so sounds like Schwinn in the USA. Schwinn went mass market (sold at Walmart) and some non-enthusiasts still think they are a quality bike. If you think Halfords is hocking junk, you have not experienced Walmart.

 

[FrankCrank]

I know of no other brand (bicycle or otherwise) whose reputation for quality so exceeded the reality. A lot of people bought them because that was the only brand name they knew. But that was based on information (if it was ever true) that was decades out of date.

I remember attending big bike industry trade shows in the 80's and 90"s and the Raleigh reps swaggering around in their black shirts like they owned the joint, sneering at all the other brands. Supreme arrogance. They really did believe they were head and shoulders superior to everyone else. It was almost cult like.

I remember a Raleigh rep commenting on the very first mountain bike on display in the window of FW Evans in Waterloo. He scoffed at it. "farking ugly heavy piece of shoot, they'll never catch on. Only a moron would buy one! "

I remember going into a Raleigh dealer a couple of years later, long after it was obvious that Raleigh had missed the MTB boat, to nose around, asking if they had any mountain bikes for sale and being shown a Raleigh Bomber. The salesman insisting that yes indeed, this is a mountain bike. With it's steel sidepull brakes, 3 speed hub and Post Office bike derived frame...

I remember Raleigh selling the employees of Strurmey Archer down the river.

I remember Raleigh selling the employees of Brooks down the river. Thankfully they landed on their feet, but no thanks to Raleigh management.

I worked for a company in York for over a decade. We supplied whole fleets of commuter bikes to companies and local authorities for schemes to get people out of their cars. But we were a bit disruptive to the bike trade ecology because we'd sweep in and buy 100 or 200 bikes at a time. So we had to have multiple suppliers; Trek, Dawes, Kona, Ridgeback. Sometimes, and against my protestations, we'd buy bikes from Raleigh. They were universally terrible. Took twice as long to build and had really awful quality issues. When other companies were having their bikes built in Taiwan Raleigh went to Cambodia or Pakistan. Don't get me wrong. Im a fan of inexpensive bikes. But I'm not a fan of companies who peddle sh!te.

The big question for me is how they managed to survive for so long.

Like i always say, the only good Raleigh is one at the bottom of a body of water. Preferably a canal.

Now now Mickle - if you don't like Raleigh, just come out and say so.

 

[FrankCrank]

Feast your peepers on a selection from the collection

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

As far as I can find, and there seems to be very little information, the M-Trax range was originally to market titanium frames: apparently they had lugged joints because they didn't have the technology to weld them, or something. Chromoly was introduced later, but I recall being told the company was a kind of subsidiary of Raleigh and built their frames in Nottingham....It was apparently a relatively short-lived venture; I'm guessing it was closed down and all production moved overseas....

From memory when I used to sell them the 'Dynatech' name was used initially for their bonded Titanium frames, although they did retain the name for a while when they evolved into being welded. The name M-Trax came very soon after, there were a few examples of the bonded construction but by then most were welded. In addition to Titanium M-Trax were also made in steel; welded, not lugs and brass.

I can see the comments about the quality of Raleigh bikes, but for my ten pence worth, when I started 40 years ago when it comes to the quality of mass market productions bikes the quality was competitive with their rivals, Dawes were probably the most similar, but even then the amount of company's manufacturing in the UK was diminishing. If I recall the likes of 'Claud Butler' and 'Holdsworth', aimed at the higher small volume sector no longer manufactured in the UK. Yes you could get far better quality, the artisan frame builders were far more common place than they are now, there will no doubt be lots of forum posts about those builders, the two most local to me were 'Roberts' and 'Cliff Shrubb'. Many club riders would ride a frame from their local artisan builder; often these were of very high quality and understandably many were and still seen today as desirable works of art.

'Mercian' still build in the traditional way in but most of the current artisan builders will weld, in part as that is the method many of the thin modern steel tubes are designed for; these thinner lightweight tubes are often not conducive to being heated with a flame for brass and lugs. In reality the skill set is quite different. I asked 'Geoff Roberts' when he used to run the frame building classes at Enigma Bicycle works if he ever welds, he laughed, picked up one of the welding masks that the Ti welders used, faced me and said "I can barely see you Paul let alone a teeny tiny weld "...edited for Geoff's modesty, he may have said the odd expletive in qualifying his 'NO'

Back to Raleigh, yes I have lot of affection for them and as yes my glasses may have a 'Rose tint 'to them , but I also respect what they once were, a UK manufacturer that rivalled those anywhere in the world with a similar business model; I was proud to promote them. I still have two Raleigh bikes, both of which I still use, a Raleigh Pioneer Elite, built with lugs and brass that is about 35 years old and a Steel M-Trax that I have had about 30 years, I smiled when I found my 'I love my bike pictures'; the two of my M-Trax are a bit of a time stamp .

 

[kingrollo]

Surely as a worst scenario somebody will buy the rights to raleigh chopper and get a few made in the far east for the UK market.
IIRC - every time they have done a run of Raleigh choppers they have sold out. The last runs were pretty decent v the original as well.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

Surely as a worst scenario somebody will buy the rights to raleigh chopper and get a few made in the far east for the UK market.
IIRC - every time they have done a run of Raleigh choppers they have sold out. The last runs were pretty decent v the original as well.

Can so see Ashley being all over that.

 

[Andy in Germany]

In addition to Titanium M-Trax were also made in steel; welded, not lugs and brass.

Yes, that's what mine was: Chromoly steel and welded. I was startled to realise it's three decades old next year. I should probably get on with repainting it as I guess the guarantee has expired...

 

[Vapin' Joe]

but I also respect what they once were, a UK manufacturer that rivalled those anywhere in the world with a similar business model;

Alas, the same could be said of the car and motorcycle industries. We led the way, stood still and were overtaken, then collapsed.

 

[Andy in Germany]

From memory when I used to sell them the 'Dynatech' name was used initially for their bonded Titanium frames, although they did retain the name for a while when they evolved into being welded. The name M-Trax came very soon after, there were a few examples of the bonded construction but by then most were welded. In addition to Titanium M-Trax were also made in steel; welded, not lugs and brass.

I can see the comments about the quality of Raleigh bikes, but for my ten pence worth, when I started 40 years ago when it comes to the quality of mass market productions bikes the quality was competitive with their rivals, Dawes were probably the most similar, but even then the amount of company's manufacturing in the UK was diminishing. If I recall the likes of 'Claud Butler' and 'Holdsworth', aimed at the higher small volume sector no longer manufactured in the UK. Yes you could get far better quality, the artisan frame builders were far more common place than they are now, there will no doubt be lots of forum posts about those builders, the two most local to me were 'Roberts' and 'Cliff Shrubb'. Many club riders would ride a frame from their local artisan builder; often these were of very high quality and understandably many were and still seen today as desirable works of art.

'Mercian' still build in the traditional way in but most of the current artisan builders will weld, in part as that is the method many of the thin modern steel tubes are designed for; these thinner lightweight tubes are often not conducive to being heated with a flame for brass and lugs. In reality the skill set is quite different. I asked 'Geoff Roberts' when he used to run the frame building classes at Enigma Bicycle works if he ever welds, he laughed, picked up one of the welding masks that the Ti welders used, faced me and said "I can barely see you Paul let alone a teeny tiny weld "...edited for Geoff's modesty, he may have said the odd expletive in qualifying his 'NO'

Back to Raleigh, yes I have lot of affection for them and as yes my glasses may have a 'Rose tint 'to them , but I also respect what they once were, a UK manufacturer that rivalled those anywhere in the world with a similar business model; I was proud to promote them. I still have two Raleigh bikes, both of which I still use, a Raleigh Pioneer Elite, built with lugs and brass that is about 35 years old and a Steel M-Trax that I have had about 30 years, I smiled when I found my 'I love my bike pictures'; the two of my M-Trax are a bit of a time stamp .

This looks very similar to mine in original condition, although I think it's considerably better specced than mine was. I really like the TriumphTR7 in the background of the other one btw.

 

[Webbo2]

I had a Raleigh Titanium mountain bike amongst other Raleigh’s I owned. After an event I noticed a hair line crack in the bottom bracket welding. Took it in to the shop ( a Raleigh dealer) on the Monday on the Thursday they rang me to come and and bike my bike up. Completely rebuilt with a new frame.
when they were good they were very good.

 

[kingrollo]

Can so see Ashley being all over that.

Yeah must admit he did cross my mind.

 

[kingrollo]

Think colnago or pinarello should get involved and do a carbon fibre raleigh chopper with electronic shifting.

 

[katiewlx]

Surely as a worst scenario somebody will buy the rights to raleigh chopper and get a few made in the far east for the UK market.
IIRC - every time they have done a run of Raleigh choppers they have sold out. The last runs were pretty decent v the original as well.

but why they were a pretty appalling bike ? they just looked the part in the 70s, they can only being bought recently by obsessive collectors or people who have more money than sense.

we are talking about a bike thats nearly 60 years old in design terms, which in terms of dating it, is almost like when it first came out people obsessing about Penny Farthings still.

if there was any value left in the brand, and Ive already stated I think thats questionable in the bike trade now, they should just produce a bunch of very generic, solid quality, but cheap bikes equiv to what Decathlon do with BTWIN, stick the old logo on them, see if they sell.

the chopper is not the way forward, trying to invent a chopper for the 2020s is not the way forward, putting together decent well made bikes for a budget is probably their best bet, but since a succession of owners for the past 30+ years or so havent bothered trying to do that I dont rate their chances of following that path.