Rear radar - any good?

[PaulSB]

I find it bizarre that people think they can make eye contact with a person in another vehicle when both are moving at different velocities and seen through tinted windscreens, sun glasses etc. If you can discern which direction they are looking in it wouldn't tell you any more than that, just as an indicator does nothing more than tell you it works.
When approaching a junction or roundabout I make eye contact with the front wheels of any approaching vehicles. The vast majority of vehicles steer from the front, the vehicle is going to travel in the direction the wheels are pointing regardless of where the driver is looking.

This is very true. I do find it useful when I'm approaching a vehicle on a side road to my left and when negotiating a roundabout as in these situations one can usually see the driver through the side window and often through the windscreen. Glances back though are quite different. I'm a big supporter of radar but fully acknowledge when manoeuvring it cannot be a substitute for a shoulder check and there are situations when a vehicle showing on the radar needs a glance to let the driver know I know he's there. The check I find most useful is in heavy traffic and needing to manoeuvre I will make a very exaggerated head and/or upper body movement to communicate to a driver I need him to wait for me. It usually works.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I find that looking directly at a driver makes him or her more aware of me
people naturally take notice of someone who is looking at them

at the same time you can see how their steering wheel and hands are moving which gives extra clues
and at the same time the distance means that you also have a view of their front wheels


it all goes together to make you aware of what is likely to happen - and whether or not they are paying attention to the fact that you are there

of course - looking at them also means you might be able to see if they have a mobile phone to their ear which is a clue!!!

all this works whether in a car or on a bike

 

[Sea of vapours]

Additional to the above, looking at people is supposed to transform you, in the thoughts of the driver, from 'obstruction' to 'person'. The eye contact thing is probably not critical, even if it's possible; it's more a case of 'point face at driver'.

 

[Dogtrousers]

On things like junction approaches I'll try to get a look at the driver behind in order to convey the message "Yes, I know you're there, I'm not just bumbling along oblivious. And yes I really do want this lane for the junction ". Obviously making eye contact on a shoulder check isn't an easy, or safe, thing to do. I'm just trying to let them know I've seen them and am trying just like they are to be in the right lane.

I've no Idea if it works. I turn my telepathic powers up to max.

 

[Mike_P]

I find it a bit hit and miss looking at drivers when approaching the right turn on the A61 I referenced earlier if the Varia isn' going green. Some motorists seem to expect the following one will gve way. Trick that normally works is to slow down whilst pleadingly looking at driver. That nornally results in their brain cell realising I want the right turn lane and those slightly brighter might actually guve in a wave out indication.

 

[Ajax Bay]

looking at people is supposed to transform you, in the thoughts of the driver, from 'obstruction' to 'person'. The eye contact thing is probably not critical, even if it's possible; it's more a case of 'point face at driver'.

This ^^. That's why turning head and looking is worthwhile (effort well spent), whether as a matter of course before a change of line (eg broken road surface) or other manoeuvre, because you've heard a vehicle behind, or because your rear radar has so alerted you.

 

[mjr]

I find that looking directly at a driver makes him or her more aware of me
people naturally take notice of someone who is looking at them

Yeah. No. I've had too many people look right at me and pull out, including one in the car when I think only my vehicle's excellent driver aids can have saved me because there's no way I can stop in that distance in another car... although I was covering the brakes because it's a junction where I've seen enough wrecks over the decade before.

Trust no-one. Not even me. Place your own bets based on position, not looks, and make your choice.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Yeah. No. I've had too many people look right at me and pull out, including one in the car when I think only my vehicle's excellent driver aids can have saved me because there's no way I can stop in that distance in another car... although I was covering the brakes because it's a junction where I've seen enough wrecks over the decade before.

Trust no-one. Not even me. Place your own bets based on position, not looks, and make your choice.

Yes - as my Grandad said when I was learning to drive
"Drive on the basis the round the next corner is a lunatic in a Chieftain tank on the wrong side of the road"

It was highlighted recently on our local NextDoor thingy

someone asked what lane to be in on "The Gyratory" - which is a local thing which should have been a roundabout butthe decided to save money by giving the design to a buch of non drivers - and gave them a bottle of gin each to help them design it!!!

the answers were along the lines of
"You MUST use the second lane for the retail park"
"You must use lane 1 ONLY for Warrington - and never for the retail park"
"Lane 1 is for Warrington AND the retail park - lane 2 must never be used except for straight on"
"It is illegal to use lane 1 for the retail park"
and - basically - every possible way of using the damn thing was "Known to be right by EVERYONE" - even the ones that clearly went against the road signs


so - people obey "local rules" and assume that every other driver on the roads knows the same rules and sticks to them

and everyone knows different rules
like how to approach a closed lane on a busy motorway!!


so - when driving - every other driver is an idiot and should be treated as such

 

[Ajax Bay]

so - when driving - every other driver is an idiot and should be treated as such

Yes, with anticipation, respect, wariness and dynamic risk management.
Applies "when cycling" as well, obv. Empathise (consider their perspective) with the drivers ahead and behind.

 

[Happy_Days]

IAM Roadsmart associates (and indeed RoSPA trainees) are indeed taught to get eye contact with other drivers where possible. The difference here is that we generally emphasise this when approaching a junction or roundabout where you will be looking into the other car via the side windows rather than the windscreen. The issue of reflections is then much reduced.

My advanced motorcycle training taught me not to rely on eye contact. Instead, I was taught to observe what the car’s wheels were doing.

Eye contact merely means that the driver is looking in my direction. They may have looked but failed to see me due to saccadic masking. While I can usually attract their attention by moving laterally, it’s not foolproof.

When a car’s at a junction and I’m approaching on a main road, I want to know if the wheels start to move—regardless of whether or not the driver’s looking in my direction.

 

[blackrat]

This is very true. I do find it useful when I'm approaching a vehicle on a side road to my left and when negotiating a roundabout as in these situations one can usually see the driver through the side window and often through the windscreen. Glances back though are quite different. I'm a big supporter of radar but fully acknowledge when manoeuvring it cannot be a substitute for a shoulder check and there are situations when a vehicle showing on the radar needs a glance to let the driver know I know he's there. The check I find most useful is in heavy traffic and needing to manoeuvre I will make a very exaggerated head and/or upper body movement to communicate to a driver I need him to wait for me. It usually works.

I always turn to look at a following vehicle and always make eye contact at junctions. A driver knowing you have acknowledged he is there will act much more responsibly - better than assuming a radar device is protective.

 

[Bristolian]

My advanced motorcycle training taught me not to rely on eye contact. Instead, I was taught to observe what the car’s wheels were doing.

Eye contact merely means that the driver is looking in my direction. They may have looked but failed to see me due to saccadic masking. While I can usually attract their attention by moving laterally, it’s not foolproof.

When a car’s at a junction and I’m approaching on a main road, I want to know if the wheels start to move—regardless of whether or not the driver’s looking in my direction.

Eye contact is definitely not the only thing to be aware of but if they're not even looking your way it would be prudent to plan for them to so something stupid. If you can get eye contact with someone and hold it for a few seconds (two is generally enough) then the effects of saccadic masking will generally have worn off end the driver should at least register your presence ... no guarantees though and they may still do something stupid.

What the wheels are doing and what the driver's hands are doing are other clues (there are more). In the end though, nothing you do is likely to influence what the other person does.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Yes - as my Grandad said when I was learning to drive
"Drive on the basis the round the next corner is a lunatic in a Chieftain tank on the wrong side of the road"

Kenny Everett has much to answer for

 

[Bristolian]

I find it bizarre that people think they can make eye contact with a person in another vehicle when both are moving at different velocities and seen through tinted windscreens, sun glasses etc. If you can discern which direction they are looking in it wouldn't tell you any more than that, just as an indicator does nothing more than tell you it works.
When approaching a junction or roundabout I make eye contact with the front wheels of any approaching vehicles. The vast majority of vehicles steer from the front, the vehicle is going to travel in the direction the wheels are pointing regardless of where the driver is looking.

It's not bizarre at all and eminently possible - I know I do it all the time when driving the car, riding my motorbike or bicycle. Polarised sunglasses make it quite simple.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, getting eye contact is not the only thing that gives clues as to what the other person might do but if I can see them looking directly at me and holding that gaze for a couple of seconds I'm fairly confident that I have been seen. Of course, the fact that someone sees me doesn't mean they won't do something stupid anyway but as I am also seeing their hands on the steering wheel (or lack of) and the vehicle's wheels and including that information to formulate my driving/riding plan.

Something to consider; if you are looking at the vehicles wheels (i.e. looking slightly down) you don't see what the driver is doing but if you are looking at the driver (i.e. pretty much horizontally) then you can also see what the wheels are doing.

 

[Mike_P]

Yes - as my Grandad said when I was learning to drive
"Drive on the basis the round the next corner is a lunatic in a Chieftain tank on the wrong side of the road"

It was highlighted recently on our local NextDoor thingy

someone asked what lane to be in on "The Gyratory" - which is a local thing which should have been a roundabout butthe decided to save money by giving the design to a buch of non drivers - and gave them a bottle of gin each to help them design it!!!

the answers were along the lines of
"You MUST use the second lane for the retail park"
"You must use lane 1 ONLY for Warrington - and never for the retail park"
"Lane 1 is for Warrington AND the retail park - lane 2 must never be used except for straight on"
"It is illegal to use lane 1 for the retail park"
and - basically - every possible way of using the damn thing was "Known to be right by EVERYONE" - even the ones that clearly went against the road signs


so - people obey "local rules" and assume that every other driver on the roads knows the same rules and sticks to them

and everyone knows different rules
like how to approach a closed lane on a busy motorway!!


so - when driving - every other driver is an idiot and should be treated as such

And no doubt numerous versions of how to indicate. Its normally pratts indicating right when going straight on but this afternoon I had a clown in front indicating left which would have been a turning onto a shared pavement if actually being undertaken.