Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
1486970 said:
I say this because I know many people who would class riding a fire road as MTB'ing!!!
Reasons not to wear helmets
- Thread starter tigger
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I say this because I know many people who would class riding a fire road as MTB'ing!!!
1486970 said:
Nothing to forgive that a kick in the bollicks would sort Adrian.
Bombing up and down off road on trails, over rocks, tree roots, in and out of gully's, through water and mud ie real MTB'ing, none of this namby pamby riding cinder trails with the missus etc then I think that a helmet would offer some protection.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Nothing to forgive that a kick in the bollicks would sort Adrian.I Should have made it clearer.
Bombing up and down off road on trails, over rocks, tree roots, in and out of gully's, through water and mud ie real MTB'ing, none of this namby pamby riding cinder trails with the missus etc then I think that a helmet would offer some protection.
I agree completely but apparently you are actually protected by "Risk Compensation" and not the helmet!
Mainly in the Lake and Peak Districts so some pretty technical trails although I'm not averse to a gentle fireroad potter either. I've done rides in a number of the MTB Centres but find it all too artificial. I just see those trails as a collection of artificial structures out of the IMBA trailbuilder's handbook slung together in sequence. What I did ride was black though FWIW.
I also ski black and double black and don't wear a helmet then either.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Risk compensation my be a real life saver then.
They didn't have helmets when mountain biking first started and the Rough Stuff Fellowship rode for decades before helmets came on the scene. So its clearly not necessary to wear one.
And, to correct you, you are either not protected or protected worse by Risk Compensation as it leads you to take more risks when you think you are protected from them.
You've misunderstood risk compensation then. I do wish you would take the trouble to at least do a bit of Googling or Wikipedia to inform yourself on a subject before pronouncing on it. That's twice today where you've got it wrong about stuff that is easily checkable - concussion symptoms and risk compensation.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
I have read it - In ethology, risk compensation is an effect whereby individual people may tend to adjust their behaviour in response to perceived changes in risk. It is seen as self-evident that individuals will tend to behave in a more cautious manner if their perception of risk or danger increases. Another way of stating this is that individuals will behave less cautiously in situations where they feel "safer" or more protected.
I take it that you perceive a black route as a risk and so ride accordingly. You have stated that wearing a helmet increased the likelihood of riding recklessness then according to the definition not wearing a helmet will cause you to ride for cautiously
Or I pay more attention to what I am doing so e.g. I make sure I set up and land the jumps properly rather than making it up as I go.
But yes, if risk compensation is in action I will be as safe as a helmeted rider if their helmet does protect them as much as they think or I will be much safer if the helmet doesn't protect them but they think it does.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
So do I get an apology for
as I am right about risk compensation and
Signs and symptoms of shock
Depending on the cause, some of the symptoms and signs of shock may include:
- Pale, cold, clammy skin
- Shallow, rapid breathing
- Difficulty breathing
- Anxiety
- Rapid heart beat
- Heart beat irregularities or palpitations
- Thirst or a dry mouth
- Low urine output or dark urine
- Nausea
- Vomiting
- Dizziness
- Light-headedness
- Confusion and disorientation
- Unconsciousness.
Nope, reading up and quoting the link I gave after the event doesn't warrant one and RC is only a life saver if you think helmets have no safety effect in mountain biking which you don't.
You did counter my (correct) claim that confusion was associated with brain injury/concussion with your claim that its a symptom of shock
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Because I quoted the link after I commented does not mean I did not read it. You are so entrenched in your own certainty that you are right that you refuse to accept the possibility that someone else may have spotted something you missed out. For example (see highlighted text)
Signs and symptoms of shock
Depending on the cause, some of the symptoms and signs of shock may include:
- Pale, cold, clammy skin
- Shallow, rapid breathing
- Difficulty breathing
- Anxiety
- Rapid heart beat
- Heart beat irregularities or palpitations
- Thirst or a dry mouth
- Low urine output or dark urine
- Nausea
- Vomiting
- Dizziness
- Light-headedness
- Confusion and disorientation
- Unconsciousness.
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
RL, to be fair, I think you're being a bit inflexible here. If Risk Compensation works to decrease inhibitions, it can also work to increase inhibitions. A driver mincing along because he's got a 6" spike in the middle of his wheel would be compensating for increased risk by altering his behaviour, just as a rider thrashing it down a mountain because he's wearing a plastic hat he thinks is the equivalent of a neonatal dip in the River Styx would be compensating for perceived risk reduction. Compensation works both ways.
And, also in the spirit of fairness, confusion and disorientation can result from shock, although I would agree that it's a primary symptom of concussion. I would expect to see it in instances of shock caused by blood loss, however, rather than the emotional aftermath of a crash. When I did first aid many years ago, we were taught that shock technically referred to reduction in blood flow to the brain and emotional shock was something different, although in my most recent first aid course they looked at me like I was bananas when I mentioned this.
If we're expecting decent discussion on this topic we need to be willing to account for misunderstandings and differing interpretations instead of assuming everything is a counter-argument.
Sam
And, also in the spirit of fairness, confusion and disorientation can result from shock, although I would agree that it's a primary symptom of concussion. I would expect to see it in instances of shock caused by blood loss, however, rather than the emotional aftermath of a crash. When I did first aid many years ago, we were taught that shock technically referred to reduction in blood flow to the brain and emotional shock was something different, although in my most recent first aid course they looked at me like I was bananas when I mentioned this.
If we're expecting decent discussion on this topic we need to be willing to account for misunderstandings and differing interpretations instead of assuming everything is a counter-argument.
Sam
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