red light jumping endemic in London.
- Thread starter spindrift
- Start date
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tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
I can appreciate your reasoning Bonj but I was essentially pointing out the general perception of RLJ'ing and the reflection that this has on cyclists that otherwise choose not to break the law in the eyes of other road users.
Think about your reaction to say, a bus jumping the lights or a ped crossing on a red man right in your path.
Think about your reaction to say, a bus jumping the lights or a ped crossing on a red man right in your path.
First let me nullify the 'right in your path' comparison, this isn't a valid comparison with anything I would condone or do, because this is clearly dangerous, as I've said I only RLJ when it's safe to do so.
As regards perceptions of cyclists, if anyone's perception of cyclists is negative and lumps themal together in one basket, then it only takes one cyclist, if even that - to do it, for them to justify their perception. Thus, any particular cyclist (me) doing it or not doing it isn't going to change that.
Thirdly, where is the evidence to suggest that anyone who has a bad perception of cyclists is more likely to mow one down? I basically reject the notion, even if I could represent 'cyclists in general', that improving people's 'perception' of cyclists would improve my or anyone's life in any noticeable way.
As regards perceptions of cyclists, if anyone's perception of cyclists is negative and lumps themal together in one basket, then it only takes one cyclist, if even that - to do it, for them to justify their perception. Thus, any particular cyclist (me) doing it or not doing it isn't going to change that.
Thirdly, where is the evidence to suggest that anyone who has a bad perception of cyclists is more likely to mow one down? I basically reject the notion, even if I could represent 'cyclists in general', that improving people's 'perception' of cyclists would improve my or anyone's life in any noticeable way.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
domtyler said:
Bollocks to this statement. I've only ever seen selfish and illegal red light jumping, I've never seen any that could *possibly* be justified on safety terms.
U
User482
Guest
domtyler said:
Cyclists. If we want to be treated with respect and courtesy by other road users then we should obey the rules of the road. I think of it as taking away drivers' excuses for whinging. I might think differently if obeying the rules of the road places us in more danger than breaking them, but I've never seen an argument for RLJing that stacks up. It's just impatience.
domtyler
Über Member
I am comfortable with my selfishness then, I don't give a toss what car drivers think of me although I have never noticed that anyone has ever given a hoot about what I do or don't do. You guys are seriously blowing this out of all proportion, no one else gives a flying monkey about what cyclists do.
In any case, the ones who do hate cyclists, and there are a few on the roads, will do so whatever I do, even if all cyclists behaved impeccably at all times, their perceptions would not change in the slightest because we are not talking about reasonable people.
In any case, the ones who do hate cyclists, and there are a few on the roads, will do so whatever I do, even if all cyclists behaved impeccably at all times, their perceptions would not change in the slightest because we are not talking about reasonable people.
tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
domtyler said:
Then in which case both you and Bonj are in no position to criticize anyone elses driving or riding.
tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
domtyler said:
Fairy nuff.
MERV
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road
bonj said:
I was too pissed to understand what it all meant.
mootaineer
New Member
- Location
- London
domtyler said:
Just a quickie...not to you in particular...
Although I fall into the camp of believing that RLJs are ammunition for anti-cyclists, is it worth considering that non-RLJs may be equally disliked because they "hold up" motorised traffic that could otherwise move off much faster when the lights go
?I probably agree with you that people who don't like cyclists just don't like cyclists, RLJs or not...
swee'pea99
Legendary Member
On a related thread we have:
"Straight road approaching a light controlled ped crossing.
you see a bunch of kids hit the lights button as they pass and the lights turn to amber.
So they've no intention of crossing, there's no side junctions.
Do you RLJ?"
To which John the Monkey responds:
"If there's time to stop safely, I'd stop."
Well, good question - because it starkly raises the core issue. And - sorry MonkeyMan - sad answer.
Ever wondered why people talk of spirit of the law, as distinct from the letter of the law?
Or why you never hear people saying how they 'hate motorists' because some motorists drink-drive? (Tho' they may say they hate drink-drivers. Do you see the point I'm making here?)
Any cyclist who RLJs and so much as spooks another road-user, let alone endangers them, is a scumbag. But that doesn't make all RLJers scumbags. Or RLJing, as such, (viz the example above) necessarily contrary to the spirit of the law.
As for not 'giving ammunition to cyclist-haters', as others have said, **** 'em. As I said in an earlier post, blaming RLJers for cyclist-haters' views is like blaming immigrants for 'giving ammunition to racists'. Someone posted back 'only if they're illegal immigrants'. Thereby missing the point entirely. The point being, racists don't hate illegal immigrants. They hate black people. And you don't respond to racists by blaming illegal immigrants. You respond to racism by telling racists to spin on this, then take it away, glue blades on it, and stick it where the sun don't shine.
In conceding to these peanuts that they 'have a point', that their animus toward cyclists is in any sense or to any extent justified by 'the actions of cyclists who seem to think they are above the law', you are betraying everyone who gets around on two wheels. These people should not be conceded to. They should be confronted, opposed relentlessly, and thrashed till they howl like the mangy, misbegotten curs they are.
You want to stop at those lights John? Fine. Each to his own. Me, I'll ride on...
"Straight road approaching a light controlled ped crossing.
you see a bunch of kids hit the lights button as they pass and the lights turn to amber.
So they've no intention of crossing, there's no side junctions.
Do you RLJ?"
To which John the Monkey responds:
"If there's time to stop safely, I'd stop."
Well, good question - because it starkly raises the core issue. And - sorry MonkeyMan - sad answer.
Ever wondered why people talk of spirit of the law, as distinct from the letter of the law?
Or why you never hear people saying how they 'hate motorists' because some motorists drink-drive? (Tho' they may say they hate drink-drivers. Do you see the point I'm making here?)
Any cyclist who RLJs and so much as spooks another road-user, let alone endangers them, is a scumbag. But that doesn't make all RLJers scumbags. Or RLJing, as such, (viz the example above) necessarily contrary to the spirit of the law.
As for not 'giving ammunition to cyclist-haters', as others have said, **** 'em. As I said in an earlier post, blaming RLJers for cyclist-haters' views is like blaming immigrants for 'giving ammunition to racists'. Someone posted back 'only if they're illegal immigrants'. Thereby missing the point entirely. The point being, racists don't hate illegal immigrants. They hate black people. And you don't respond to racists by blaming illegal immigrants. You respond to racism by telling racists to spin on this, then take it away, glue blades on it, and stick it where the sun don't shine.
In conceding to these peanuts that they 'have a point', that their animus toward cyclists is in any sense or to any extent justified by 'the actions of cyclists who seem to think they are above the law', you are betraying everyone who gets around on two wheels. These people should not be conceded to. They should be confronted, opposed relentlessly, and thrashed till they howl like the mangy, misbegotten curs they are.
You want to stop at those lights John? Fine. Each to his own. Me, I'll ride on...
mr_cellophane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Essex
Walking across Bishopsgate this morning, I nearly got taken out by a girl on a sit up and beg bike RLJing. I managed to kick her back wheel as she weaved past. She did say sorry though. 
PrettyboyTim
New Member
- Location
- Brighton
I think I saw more motor vehicles jump red lights on my way in today than cyclists.
It's pretty damming that in a 35 minute journey, you can see 12 or so people jump red lights and it not seem all that out of the ordinary.
It's pretty damming that in a 35 minute journey, you can see 12 or so people jump red lights and it not seem all that out of the ordinary.
