Reflective Paint

[BentMikey]

I should point out that I only wear yellow during the winter when light conditions are poorer. In complete dark it is useless of course. But with street lighting, or in dusk conditions I am certain that it affords me a little more visibility. Anything I can do to improve my safety is a good thing.

You do realise that the fluo part of the hiviz is completely useless when there's no UV about? It's only designed to work in daylight, and is drab and largely unnoticeable otherwise. The reflective part of std hiviz takes over at this point.

With the reflectors, I'm sure we all appreciate that they are only of use when there is a light source close to the observer's sight line pointing towards the reflector. They won't work at all in your junction example since the driver has no light source shining towards the cyclist, and neither will the fluo part of the hiviz because it's dark. Bike lights, on the other hand, are just the thing since they are extremely bright and shining almost directly at the driver.

Your comments regarding bike lights being "not very visible" are just disingenuous. Well, unless you're thinking about the dim green front light brigade. Going by the light topics, I think nearly all of us on here have proper bright lights.

 

[BentMikey]

I have always taken Hi-Viz to refer to the fluorescent yellow and pink clothing, whereas reflectives are the retro-reflective materials like Scotch 3M.

Oh, sorry Dom, I guessed wrongly there. Hiviz is in fact the combination of the fluo part for daytime use when reflectives don't work, and the reflective part for night time when the fluo doesn't work.

 

[Maz]

Oh I'm glad that you chose this scenario!

Of course this is EXACTLY the time when the luridly clad cyclists get clattered. They almost always assume that the driver MUST have seen them and carry on under that assumption. Next thing you know they are making their first post on Bike Radar asking for advise about which solicitor to go to. "Can't believe dozy car driver didn't see me, How could he not when I was in all my day glo gear? "

The correct and safe way to proceed is to slow, make eye contact with the driver (giving a preemptive blast on the AirZound if he/she does not give it). All the while preparing yourself for the driver to pull out on you.

This is Cycle Craft folks and this is what keeps you alive on the roads, not wearing day-glo pink vests and knickers.

It is indeed Cyclecraft.
Hi-viz helps to get me seen by other road users which can only be a good thing. I'm under no illusion that it is somehow a substitute for good road positioning, eye contact etc.

 

[domtyler]

Im more likely to listen to my motorist friends than domtyler.

My motorist friends at work always complain about cyclists with no lights/hard to see and RLJers.

So I will continue to wear Hi-Viz as it gives me half a chance with motorists.

Peds on the other hand im usually invisible to.Which keeps me on the alert.

They probably complain about cyclists being too far away from the kerb, not being allowed to use their mobile and too many speed cameras too.
Cock

 

[magnatom]

You do realise that the fluo part of the hiviz is completely useless when there's no UV about? It's only designed to work in daylight, and is drab and largely unnoticeable otherwise.

Of course, but it also tends to be a bright colour, i.e. yellow, as opposed to gray/black/dark blue and so functions better than these colours under reduced, but not very low, light conditions.

Your comments regarding bike lights being "not very visible" are just disingenuous. Well, unless you're thinking about the dim green front light brigade. Going by the light topics, I think nearly all of us on here have proper bright lights.

You are right that lights should be bright enough to be visible from angles. My nice bright Busch and Muller was bought with this in mind, however, it still is a point of light. On the road (and close by) there are points of light everywhere, street lighting, cars, traffic lights, house lights, garden lights, the moon, the light shinning out of my ar%$ . It would be easy in a glance for a driver to dismiss a point of light if they could not see what it was associated with. Wearing a bright colour/hi-viz brings the light into context and provides a greater chance of recognition that this is an object approaching that probably shouldn't be hit.

Of course there are also those who have bothered to get lights but have only spent £3.99 on the light

 

[BentMikey]

Of course, but it also tends to be a bright colour, i.e. yellow, as opposed to gray/black/dark blue and so functions better than these colours under reduced, but not very low, light conditions.

The fluo part really doesn't work at all in the conditions you specified. There must be UV around, otherwise it's a dull and drab colour that doesn't stand out in the way you imply at all. Under streetlights, it's pretty much invisible. Surely you must have noticed this?

You can't seriously argue that it comes anywhere close to a set of lights. Not even in daylight. Doh!!!

 

[domtyler]

So Mikey, do you advocate the use of reflectives or not?

 

[magnatom]

The fluo part really doesn't work at all in the conditions you specified. There must be UV around, otherwise it's a dull and drab colour that doesn't stand out in the way you imply at all. Under streetlights, it's pretty much invisible. Surely you must have noticed this?

You can't seriously argue that it comes anywhere close to a set of lights. Not even in daylight. Doh!!!

Come on Mike, would you agree that a bright yellow jacket would be more visible than a dark gray/black/dark blue jacket under typical street lighting conditions and at dusk?

If so would you not agree that it would improve you visibility under certain circumstances?

 

[BentMikey]

So Mikey, do you advocate the use of reflectives or not?

Just the standard ones on the bike for legal night riding. I don't see the need for additional reflectives as on a hiviz jacket.

 

[BentMikey]

Come on Mike, would you agree that a bright yellow jacket would be more visible than a dark gray/black/dark blue jacket under typical street lighting conditions and at dusk?

If so would you not agree that it would improve you visibility under certain circumstances?

Actually, I think the darker jacket is more likely to be visible under street lighting as it has greater contrast, whilst the yellow jacket tends to turn the same colour as most other things under the streetlighting. At dusk the flou won't be working either, so it's still not going to help your visibility.

Are you ready yet to admit that proper cycle lights are more visible than a hiviz jacket under street lighting? What about in daylight?

 

[domtyler]

Im more likely to listen to my motorist friends than domtyler.

My motorist friends at work always complain about cyclists with no lights/hard to see and RLJers.

So I will continue to wear Hi-Viz as it gives me half a chance with motorists.

Peds on the other hand im usually invisible to.Which keeps me on the alert.

When are you gonna post a picture of this new bike of yours anyway?

 

[magnatom]

Actually, I think the darker jacket is more likely to be visible under street lighting as it has greater contrast, whilst the yellow jacket tends to turn the same colour as most other things under the streetlighting. At dusk the flou won't be working either, so it's still not going to help your visibility.

Are you ready yet to admit that proper cycle lights are more visible than a hiviz jacket under street lighting? What about in daylight?

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the jacket colour!

Mike I would never suggest that a hi-viz jacket could replace ior is better than proper cycle lights. I have never said that! (Are you going a little cab'esc on me ) Of course a jacket is supplementary to good lighting. The vast majority of your visibility will obviously result from good lighting. However, that doesn't mean there aren't other ways of improving on your visibility.

During daylight, I think the advantage of wearing a hi-viz jacket diminishes as there is much better general contrast available. It is therefore easier to discern grays/blacks etc against the background. However, I do still generally wear brightish colours just because it probably does improve my visibility if only slightly. Thats my own personal preference.

 

[BentMikey]

That's good enough for me, because my impression is that hiviz is at least an order of magnitude less noticeable and visible than bright cycle lights.

Please do me a favour though, just take some time to watch other cyclists with hiviz jackets at night, and then post back here. I find I'm only able to see the reflective parts of their jackets at night, and then only if my lights are pointing at them.

 

[Amanda P]

I wonder whether some of the disagreement is down to the different environments we're riding in?

There's a world of difference between cycling in a cluttered urban environment, where there are lights and reflective things everywhere. A road user then has to pick out the ones to worry about. Anything not lit up and/or moving is likely to be missed if you're in a hurry or not concentrating.

In these conditions, I can see BentMikey's point of view: there's so much clutter that high viz or reflectives are unlikely to help much. Road positioning would be much more important.

At the other extreme is much of my ride to work. There's a couple of miles of fast single-carriageway A road with no streetlighting. Some days the traffic's belting along at 70 mph plus. Closing speed is scary. When I'm driving and I pass a cyclist on this road, I see him a hell of a lot sooner when he's wearing reflectives than I do if he has only a rear light - because he's the only object in my visual field that is reflective.

I know it's a bike I'm catching up with: the moving pedal reflectors are particularly effective at this. But even without them, the high viz/reflective jacket tells me "there's a person in the road".

 

[col]

Im getting confused.It seems the argument is ,that bright colours and reflectives ,make no difference to us being seen by drivers,and dark colours and the reflectors that are already on bikes are sufficient,in conjunction with front and back lights?