Reflective Paint

[BentMikey]

It doesn't matter what they think you are. So long as they notice that you are moving and require further attention.
I'm not a vision expert, but I am fairly certain that peripheral vision is fairly good at detecting high contrast moving objects. Much better to increase your chances of being detected in this way than to reduce your chances, IMO.

How will anyone notice movement in the quick glance you gave as the situation where hiviz might help? Exactly, they can't.

My point is that if you look like a vehicle then it is safest to act like a vehicle. If you do something that a vehicle couldn't do i.e. sudden swerve to the right, then it could catch a following driver out, i.e. overtaking where they assumed that there was little chance of swerving. Obviously we know that cyclists shouldn't be unpredictable, but they often are in a manor that a car could not be. So it is advantageous for a cyclist to look like a cyclist so that drivers can be prepared for the more erratic behaviour that can sometimes occur.

Sorry, but this isn't showing any disadvantage of not looking like a bike. A bicycle is already a vehicle, and many vehicles can swerve just as quick as a bike. Bikes just do it more often. I think your point might be best argued by presenting specific situations.

 

[DLB]

not sure if someone else has mentioned these helmet lights but they look good...

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ProductDeta...5360032560&n=BLT LID-LED Helmet Mounted Light

 

[col]

How will anyone notice movement in the quick glance you gave as the situation where hiviz might help? Exactly, they can't.



Sorry, but this isn't showing any disadvantage of not looking like a bike. A bicycle is already a vehicle, and many vehicles can swerve just as quick as a bike. Bikes just do it more often. I think your point might be best argued by presenting specific situations.

Yellow being the last colour we see with deteriating eyesight,is probably why its the main colour for viz vests,and being that colour,a glance is more likely to be noticed with it than not.A glance at something with dark colours is less likely to be noticed.

 

[Maz]

I lean more towards Mikey's stance on high-viz, I really don't think it achieves anything more than making you look like a geeky cyclist dork. Reflectives I am covered with, check. Good lights, check. Great road positioning, check. Good awareness of what's going on around me and danger points, check.

Day glo yellow vests, sorry don't wanna look a tw@t.

Hang on. I've always thought of hi-viz as referring to BOTH your fluoro-yellows AND your 3M reflectives. The former being hi-viz for daytime, the latter hi-viz for night.

Who else thinks this?
or who thinks hi-viz just means bright yellows etc?

 

[col]

Hang on. I've always thought of hi-viz as referring to BOTH your fluoro-yellows AND your 3M reflectives. The former being hi-viz for daytime, the latter hi-viz for night.

Who else thinks this?
or who thinks hi-viz just means bright yellows etc?

Iv always took it to mean both.

 

[Brock]

It's probably worth defining our terms before this discussion continues.

I propose the 'Hi-Viz' to mean lurid coloured garments designed to be seen during the day, possibly not including primary blues and reds, but definitely encompassing 'day-glo' greens and yellows. These should be considered seperately from 'reflectives' which can refer to any coloured object that has particularly high reflective properties such as 3M scotchlite etc.

Those in favour say aye?

 

[gambatte]

aye

 

[BentMikey]

Hang on. I've always thought of hi-viz as referring to BOTH your fluoro-yellows AND your 3M reflectives. The former being hi-viz for daytime, the latter hi-viz for night.

Who else thinks this?
or who thinks hi-viz just means bright yellows etc?

Same here - and I suspect Dom also. I think the reflectors on our bikes are already enough.

 

[Tynan]

is there a point at which the reflectors would be too small to be effective?

is bigger better?

or is there an optimum size?

 

[col]

Same here - and I suspect Dom also. I think the reflectors on our bikes are already enough.

What makes you think the small reflectors on your bike,are more affective than big reflective scotchlite stripes across your body?

 

[BentMikey]

Oh I'm not saying my bike reflectors are *more* effective than the scotchlite stripes, but only that they are more than effective enough. Going OTT with hiviz might increase the reflectives, but won't have any additional safety benefit.

 

[magnatom]

Same here - and I suspect Dom also. I think the reflectors on our bikes are already enough.

I really don't think reflectors are enough. They rely on a light source to be pointing directly at them and are almost completely useless during daylight and when light is fading (and drivers haven't switched their lights on).

Imagine it is dusk and a car is waiting to pull out from a junction. You are cycling along the main road with no other cars. The driver glances in your direction, but doesn't look properly. Your lights are on, but due to the angle they are not pointing directly at the car and although visible are only a small point of light approaching from the distance which could be missed.

The cyclist wearing grey/black with reflectives or similar would only have the light to rely on to be seen (as the reflectives would be useless as no light was falling on them). It is possible that the glance did not pick that up and the driver would pull out.

The cyclist with the yellow jacket might still be missed, however, there is a better chance of being spotted, as against the dark background there is large yellow blob moving on their peripheral vision. It is more likely in this scenario that the driver would think twice, have a second look or actually register the cyclist. Do you agree with this? (I believe that peripheral vision is particularly good at at spotting moving high contrast images)

I should point out that I only wear yellow during the winter when light conditions are poorer. In complete dark it is useless of course. But with street lighting, or in dusk conditions I am certain that it affords me a little more visibility. Anything I can do to improve my safety is a good thing.

Oh and I really don't buy that there is such a thing as the anti hi-viz brigade. I have had lots and lots of abuse (just look at my youtube videos - m4arkmckay!!) but I have never heard anything mentioned about wearing hi-viz. I have however heard a lot of drivers complain about cyclists wearing dark clothes.

 

[domtyler]

I really don't think reflectors are enough. They rely on a light source to be pointing directly at them and are almost completely useless during daylight and when light is fading (and drivers haven't switched their lights on).

Imagine it is dusk and a car is waiting to pull out from a junction. You are cycling along the main road with no other cars. The driver glances in your direction, but doesn't look properly. Your lights are on, but due to the angle they are not pointing directly at the car and although visible are only a small point of light approaching from the distance which could be missed.

The cyclist wearing grey/black with reflectives or similar would only have the light to rely on to be seen (as the reflectives would be useless as no light was falling on them). It is possible that the glance did not pick that up and the driver would pull out.

The cyclist with the yellow jacket might still be missed, however, there is a better chance of being spotted, as against the dark background there is large yellow blob moving on their peripheral vision. It is more likely in this scenario that the driver would think twice, have a second look or actually register the cyclist. Do you agree with this? (I believe that peripheral vision is particularly good at at spotting moving high contrast images)

I should point out that I only wear yellow during the winter when light conditions are poorer. In complete dark it is useless of course. But with street lighting, or in dusk conditions I am certain that it affords me a little more visibility. Anything I can do to improve my safety is a good thing.

Oh and I really don't buy that there is such a thing as the anti hi-viz brigade. I have had lots and lots of abuse (just look at my youtube videos - m4arkmckay!!) but I have never heard anything mentioned about wearing hi-viz. I have however heard a lot of drivers complain about cyclists wearing dark clothes.

Oh I'm glad that you chose this scenario!

Of course this is EXACTLY the time when the luridly clad cyclists get clattered. They almost always assume that the driver MUST have seen them and carry on under that assumption. Next thing you know they are making their first post on Bike Radar asking for advise about which solicitor to go to. "Can't believe dozy car driver didn't see me, How could he not when I was in all my day glo gear? "

The correct and safe way to proceed is to slow, make eye contact with the driver (giving a preemptive blast on the AirZound if he/she does not give it). All the while preparing yourself for the driver to pull out on you.

This is Cycle Craft folks and this is what keeps you alive on the roads, not wearing day-glo pink vests and knickers.

 

[Terminator]

Im more likely to listen to my motorist friends than domtyler.

My motorist friends at work always complain about cyclists with no lights/hard to see and RLJers.

So I will continue to wear Hi-Viz as it gives me half a chance with motorists.

Peds on the other hand im usually invisible to.Which keeps me on the alert.

 

[domtyler]

Same here - and I suspect Dom also. I think the reflectors on our bikes are already enough.

I have always taken Hi-Viz to refer to the fluorescent yellow and pink clothing, whereas reflectives are the retro-reflective materials like Scotch 3M.