I remember thinking when Nibali and Henao crashed that I really hoped that they and their bikes would be out of the road before the next group came through...
Rider Safety - time to act?
- Thread starter Flying_Monkey
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Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
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What I was hoping for was to extend the conversation, so as not to forget that it isn't just about Brazil or this particular course, particularly as some of the obejctions to any description of the Olympics course as dangerous were to say 'well, it's no more dangerous than Race X'.
Plus this thread was here first.
Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
Cookson "declares" a step in the right direction with the publication of new guidelines
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-publishes-guidelines-for-vehicle-circulation-the-race-convoy/
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-publishes-guidelines-for-vehicle-circulation-the-race-convoy/
matticus
Guru
<digging up this ancient thread to highlight how long this discussion has been ongoing!?>
Giro Stage2 crash (2026):
Several UAE riders DNF after fast-ish downhill crash into armco.
A few days later, accusations (which are not denied) emerge that UAE were racing on TT tyres.
To me this is a reminder that no matter how much UCI mess-up on safety, or how much they improve safety, riders and teams will always prefer to take risks if it gives a competitive advantage.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...attribute-uaes-mass-crash-to-poor-tyre-choice
On the Watts Occuring podcast, Netcompany INEOS director of racing and Decathlon CMA CGM Team DS Luke Rowe believe that the crash may have been due to UAE's selection of tyres for the day: the Continental's GP 5000 TT tyres. These are time trial specific tyres, which the team often uses in regular road races. A legal choice, but a risky one for rainy days, as the tyres have less traction.
"UAE were riding TT tyres. We all know they're faster. They are faster. They always use them," Rowe said. "They're the one team who use them under almost any circumstances. But they do have less grip. And the first guy down was a UAE guy. Lost both wheels."
Giro Stage2 crash (2026):
Several UAE riders DNF after fast-ish downhill crash into armco.
A few days later, accusations (which are not denied) emerge that UAE were racing on TT tyres.
To me this is a reminder that no matter how much UCI mess-up on safety, or how much they improve safety, riders and teams will always prefer to take risks if it gives a competitive advantage.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...attribute-uaes-mass-crash-to-poor-tyre-choice
On the Watts Occuring podcast, Netcompany INEOS director of racing and Decathlon CMA CGM Team DS Luke Rowe believe that the crash may have been due to UAE's selection of tyres for the day: the Continental's GP 5000 TT tyres. These are time trial specific tyres, which the team often uses in regular road races. A legal choice, but a risky one for rainy days, as the tyres have less traction.
"UAE were riding TT tyres. We all know they're faster. They are faster. They always use them," Rowe said. "They're the one team who use them under almost any circumstances. But they do have less grip. And the first guy down was a UAE guy. Lost both wheels."
- Location
- Inside my skull
matticus
Guru
Me too!!!
TakeTheHighRoad
Well-Known Member
Seems an apt place to put this, as I was reflecting on the stage finish yesterday whilst on the way to work today.
We all accept that a turn on cobbles with 400m to go in the rain wasn't a great idea, but I feel as though a lot of blame has been put on the organisers in hindsight.
As with the tyre choice made above, the riders have to respond to the conditions, and the bend wasn't in and of itself dangerous. Davide Ballerini and Jasper Stuyven got round with no issues, but they chose to take a tighter line than the Unibet riders (Reinders and Groenewegen)
In my opinion, the organisers are bound by the contract with Napoli, and that presumably entails finishing a stage where the City council want them to, but I think were very unfortunate that the rain fell precisely 5 minutes before the riders got to that point.
There were complaints about the safety of the straight finish at Poland because it was too fast, complaints about the finish in Sofia as there was a corner with 300m to go, and complaints about all manner of finishes. But I think the riders tend to get away scot-free in situations like this, as if they have no say in how a course is raced
We all accept that a turn on cobbles with 400m to go in the rain wasn't a great idea, but I feel as though a lot of blame has been put on the organisers in hindsight.
As with the tyre choice made above, the riders have to respond to the conditions, and the bend wasn't in and of itself dangerous. Davide Ballerini and Jasper Stuyven got round with no issues, but they chose to take a tighter line than the Unibet riders (Reinders and Groenewegen)
In my opinion, the organisers are bound by the contract with Napoli, and that presumably entails finishing a stage where the City council want them to, but I think were very unfortunate that the rain fell precisely 5 minutes before the riders got to that point.
There were complaints about the safety of the straight finish at Poland because it was too fast, complaints about the finish in Sofia as there was a corner with 300m to go, and complaints about all manner of finishes. But I think the riders tend to get away scot-free in situations like this, as if they have no say in how a course is raced
matticus
Guru
IMHO the Naples finish was not a major risk to the riders. YES the falls were unsurprising, but they were at walking pace - far preferable to a 45-60kph stack. Ideally they would have found a long straight without cobbles, so yes, not an ideal finish, but really this was a bit of an oddity.
I'd love to know more about the contractual issues, good point!
mididoctors
Veteran
I agree with a lot of this ....that said wet cobbles 180⁰ 400m from the line on stage where the sprint trains will hit it first is stupid.
On what makes crashes deadly it's speed . The high speed crashes kill . Technical descent may cause a crash or two but it was straighter downhills that killed Gino and wout
mididoctors
Veteran
Road racing is dangerous.
matticus
Guru
Yes. Yes it is.
Yesterday in the Vuelta we had at least 4 crashes on completely safe sections of road. Two abandoned in the neutralised start!
Happy_Days
Well-Known Member
While road racing is dangerous, it’s had more deaths than MotoGP in recent years.
I’ve done my share of track time on a motorcycle and also raced triathlons. It doesn’t feel right to me that road racing has had more fatalities than MotoGP.
While it’s far from the sole factor, MotoGP grasped the protection nettle, such as making airbags compulsory for everyone (a level playing field) in 2018. It catalysed considerable innovation, with airbags going from hot and heavy to unnoticeable while riding.
Albeit much less important than the tragic losses of life, crashes meant that Jonas and Tadej were forced to abandon the TdF and Vuelta respectively. Will either of them race again this year?
I’ve done my share of track time on a motorcycle and also raced triathlons. It doesn’t feel right to me that road racing has had more fatalities than MotoGP.
While it’s far from the sole factor, MotoGP grasped the protection nettle, such as making airbags compulsory for everyone (a level playing field) in 2018. It catalysed considerable innovation, with airbags going from hot and heavy to unnoticeable while riding.
Albeit much less important than the tragic losses of life, crashes meant that Jonas and Tadej were forced to abandon the TdF and Vuelta respectively. Will either of them race again this year?
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Pross
Guru
MotoGP riders aren’t propelling themselves for 200km over mountain passes though so comparing the equipment is utterly pointless. Should they also be riding in full motorcycle helmets and leathers too?
Also, you are comparing racing on purpose built circuits with run off areas, vehicle restraint systems etc. whereas it would be more of a direct comparison to look at motorcycle road races such as the IoM TT or Northwest 200. The TT in particular doesn’t hold up particularly well. Aside from those involving cars somehow getting onto circuits most of the deaths I can recall have been on high speed mountain descents where any safety features are designed primarily to protect cars, buses or trucks and actually become a hazard for cyclists.
I’m not suggesting more doesn’t need to be done to look at safety equipment and route selection but what works in one sport doesn’t necessarily translate to another.
ktmbiker58
Über Member
The point being made by @Happy_Days is that motorcycle racing - I did it as well including racing at IOM TT - developed rider protection systems that were initially cumbersome but developed very quickly - I have an airbag vest and if I still rode MotoCross I would wear a Leatt Neck brace, the adoption of neck braces had a huge impact on the number of life changing injuries that used to be sadly all too common.
I don't think anyone was suggesting bicycle racers use safety equipment developed for motorbike racing but rather unless someone decides to do a serious review of bicycle racing safety with the intention of developing more effective rider protection then riders will keep getting hurt needlessly. Safety systems will develop but only if there is a drive to do it, until then we will continue to have riders flying around in their underwear.
There is a limit to what can be achieved with regard to course safety, at some point someone needs to grasp the nettle and take a serious look at rider protection, it may reduce perforformance but if it's mandatory it will be the same for all.
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Pross
Guru
Yes but bringing in something breathable, light and flexible that does the same job is a whole different challenge. I can’t think of any material that would do the job. It’s not just performance, there are other safety aspects to consider too. They are already struggling to keep riders safe in extreme heat. I believe they’ve researched materials that provide greater skin protection and also forms of air cushion but haven’t come up with anything suitable yet.
