Rider Safety - time to act?

[Drago]

Never ridden anything more than fun events. I'm not built for speed (that's what I tell the ladies!)

However, I do appreciate that safe positining/maneuvering and the need to win the damn race are utterly irreconcilable concepts! I get it.

However, high level motorsport has introuced rules governing on track behaviour, manouvering and positioning, with some - if far from total - success. Cycling is competitive event involving moving vehicles in close proximity, and on paper at least there is no reason why similar rules cannot be drafted for the issue here. I uppreciate that a gap of 3 feet is huge, but a gap of 6 inches if pointless if it leaves you with zero reaction space/time when it goes wrong.

The alternative is to carry on as they are and accept theyre going to fall off a lot and take others with them. Armour and stuff is all well and good, but it isn't a guarantee of safety - not falling off in the first place is. Treating the illness is always preferable to slapping on a band aid and ignoring the cause.

 

[ktmbiker58]

Never ridden anything more than fun events. I'm not built for speed (that's what I tell the ladies!)

However, I do appreciate that safe positining/maneuvering and the need to win the damn race are utterly irreconcilable concepts! I get it.

However, high level motorsport has introuced rules governing on track behaviour, manouvering and positioning, with some - if far from total - success. Cycling is competitive event involving moving vehicles in close proximity, and on paper at least there is no reason why similar rules cannot be drafted for the issue here. I uppreciate that a gap of 3 feet is huge, but a gap of 6 inches if pointless if it leaves you with zero reaction space/time when it goes wrong.

The alternative is to carry on as they are and accept theyre going to fall off a lot and take others with them. Armour and stuff is all well and good, but it isn't a guarantee of safety - not falling off in the first place is. Treating the illness is always preferable to slapping on a band aid and ignoring the cause.

In motorsport some of the improvements were driven by the insurance companies, for example : for many years you could get a basic ACU motorbike racing license by filling in a form and getting a medical declaration - you were supposed to read the ACU handbook and familiarise yourself with procedures - flags etc.

There was a race where a rider didn't follow the flag signals and caused a serious incident - the insurance company raised the issue that the ACU had no way of knowing if the rider had read the ACU handbook and therefore if he had proper knowledge of the rules, from then on it became compulsory to attend a training session at ACU HQ and pass a test to check you knew the rules before a license was issued. A positive change driven by an insurance company.

Plenty of sports that involve bags of meat travelling fast have developed a safety mindset without detracting from the sport - track/course design, standards for on track behaviour, equipment design.

 

[matticus]

In motorsport ... <snip>
Plenty of sports that involve bags of meat travelling fast have developed a safety mindset without detracting from the sport - track/course design, standards for on track behaviour, equipment design.

TRACK is quite an important word there. Velodrome racing hardly kills anyone; whilst Isle-of-Man TT (and other road races) are more fatal- per rider-race - than road cycle races.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I don't floow any motorsport other than F1
but I do remember people moaning about the changes to what was and was not allowed when overtaking
and how it would destroy the sport

but it has worked and there are less incidents and less dangerous overtakes because of it

not sure how it would work in cycling - but given that actual lives are at stake - they should be able to find a way

 

[ktmbiker58]

TRACK is quite an important word there. Velodrome racing hardly kills anyone; whilst Isle-of-Man TT (and other road races) are more fatal- per rider-race - than road cycle races.

With all due respect I think you are being pedantic about the wording and missing the point -

 

[Webbo2]

Never ridden anything more than fun events. I'm not built for speed (that's what I tell the ladies!)

However, I do appreciate that safe positining/maneuvering and the need to win the damn race are utterly irreconcilable concepts! I get it.

However, high level motorsport has introuced rules governing on track behaviour, manouvering and positioning, with some - if far from total - success. Cycling is competitive event involving moving vehicles in close proximity, and on paper at least there is no reason why similar rules cannot be drafted for the issue here. I uppreciate that a gap of 3 feet is huge, but a gap of 6 inches if pointless if it leaves you with zero reaction space/time when it goes wrong.

The alternative is to carry on as they are and accept theyre going to fall off a lot and take others with them. Armour and stuff is all well and good, but it isn't a guarantee of safety - not falling off in the first place is. Treating the illness is always preferable to slapping on a band aid and ignoring the cause.

Slightly a tangent I wonder how many leisure motor cyclists are killed in comparison to riders in bike races. I suspect there are more motor cyclists than competing cyclists but I wonder how the figures stack up.

 

[Drago]

I expect a lot more. Far more energy at play.

 

[ktmbiker58]

I don't floow any motorsport other than F1
but I do remember people moaning about the changes to what was and was not allowed when overtaking
and how it would destroy the sport

but it has worked and there are less incidents and less dangerous overtakes because of it

not sure how it would work in cycling - but given that actual lives are at stake - they should be able to find a way

It would take some brave decisions that's for sure, in motorcycle road racing everything with regard to rider safety is not only prioritised but under constant scrutiny and review, motorcycle road racing is as about as safe as it can be - rider safety is prioritised over absolutely everything else.

 

[matticus]

With all due respect I think you are being pedantic about the wording and missing the point -

Please explain to me why. I'm listening!

 

[ktmbiker58]

Please explain to me why. I'm listening!

Probably my mistake for not explaining myself fully!

The point I was trying (badly) to make was that in other sports involving high velocity humans there have been and continue to be improvements in all aspects of competitor safety.

If we take the IOM TT as an example since I have personal experience of that event, rider safety really has become the only priority with everything under constant scrutiny and review, circuit infrastructure, machines, riders PPE, riders qualifications, riders training - organisational decisions (such as whether or not to run a race or practice session) are based purely on the safety of the riders.

 

[matticus]

Probably my mistake for not explaining myself fully!

The point I was trying (badly) to make was that in other sports involving high velocity humans there have been and continue to be improvements in all aspects of competitor safety.

If we take the IOM TT as an example since I have personal experience of that event, rider safety really has become the only priority with everything under constant scrutiny and review, circuit infrastructure, machines, riders PPE, riders qualifications, riders training - organisational decisions (such as whether or not to run a race or practice session) are based purely on the safety of the riders.

Thankyou! That makes a lot more sense than comparing with closed-circuit track racing (especially at the top, million-dollar level). Although even there, IOM is a much more controllable closed-circuit than any Grand Tour route.

I would suggest that a big reason IOM have made such efforts is they foresee a genuine risk of being shut-down altogether. There is no chance of cycle road-racing being banned in the main cycle-sport nations. (I think moto-racing has lost a few public highway races in the past decade-or-so?)

 

[ktmbiker58]

I would suggest that a big reason IOM have made such efforts is they foresee a genuine risk of being shut-down altogether. There is no chance of cycle road-racing being banned in the main cycle-sport nations. (I think moto-racing has lost a few public highway races in the past decade-or-so?)

Indeed, it did have what you might call a 'quality' problem a while back until ACU Events took over the running of it, I and fellow riders have always thought that the cost of insurance might finally finish road racing events.

 

[Happy_Days]

Slightly a tangent I wonder how many leisure motor cyclists are killed in comparison to riders in bike races. I suspect there are more motor cyclists than competing cyclists but I wonder how the figures stack up.

According to Brake, cyclists are 46 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured than car drivers.
According to the Government, motorcyclists are 52 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden.
I realise the statistics don't answer your question, and they compare cycling apples with motorcycling oranges. However, someone else likely knows of better data than I do.

 

[Webbo2]

According to Brake, cyclists are 46 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured than car drivers.
According to the Government, motorcyclists are 52 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden.
I realise the statistics don't answer your question, and they compare cycling apples with motorcycling oranges. However, someone else likely knows of better data than I do.

The reason I asked is because I live on the edge of the North York Moors and seems to a weekly occurrence where they are scraping some unfortunate biker off the roads round here.

 

[Drago]

If they drove their cars during the week the way some of these pilot ride their motorbikes at the weekend they'd be dead a lot sooner.