Riding in primary or not?

[GrasB]

You need look behind to a visual picture on frequent intervals. Yes you can use your hearing to constantly survey the situation behind you in a general sense but it certainly shouldn't be used as your primary observation means.

I often find that I hear cars before I can see them (hedges etc. are much better at completely obscuring light than sound), it gives me a chance to have a idea at the situation before I can gather information visually (is it a large or small vehicle? Are they going quickly? etc). That said it's also the trigger to increase my rear obs frequency, normally it's every 4-5s but when I'm aware of an vehicle behind it's about half that until I can see them. Around town I find hearing far less useful as there's to much going on to get good information so it's more frequent rear observations.

I also agree with the 'human' aspect of looking behind. Often even when a car is a fair way back, 50m or so, you can see an instant change in the way the driver behaves when you look behind.

 

[jimboalee]

I'm with Mike - if I was riding that road and there was nothing behind I'd ride down the middle of the lane. It gives more room to manoeuvre around potholes, manhole covers etc. If something comes up behind, wants to pass and it's safe to I'll move over.

+1.

Matt. When you get a few more years under your belt, you'll learn that 'if you can ride a bike at that speed, you can ride it anywhere across the carriageway you friggin' like'.

Down a gradient at close to 30 in a 30 limit, "It's YOUR road!"

When you get on the upgrades and the speed drops, staying out in the middle will cause a hold-up, so go to the nearside.

 

[dondare]

If there's no traffic behind, then primary is the correct default position according to cyclecraft. You can always drop back to secondary when a faster vehicle approaches and it's safe to do so, which would be for most of those two video clips, again best practice. Do you have mirrors? If not, I'd question why you're not looking back much more often.

I would ride quite far out from the side on a road like that if I was the only person using it. Some might call it primary. As you say, it's always possible to move aside to let faster vehicles pass.
But I feel quite seasick after watching that clip going up and down and it would have been even worse if he'd been continually looking behind as well.

 

[jimboalee]

One word of warning tho'.

A cyclist at 30 mph in a 30 mph limit isn't seen very often and motorists in sideroads easily misjudge our approach. They don't expect a cyclist at 30 mph.

So when I'm riding at anything over 22ish, my fingers are on the brake levers.

And BTW. If you look round TOO often, a motorist following you will well think "Keep your eyes in front of you if your going to ride like a lunatic".

 

[dondare]

Wheels are stronger then you think you know, and you wouldn't have nay problems with that pothole, you feel that strongly about it then ring the local council.

I've got strong wheels and robust tyres but I avoid potholes if I can.

This refers to my earlier post about an 'ideal world' your ideal world is that motorists don't speed and therefore you doing 30 in the middle of the road is fine but it's not. There is absolutely no need for you to be in that position.

I know the world is not ideal but if people are going to drive dangerously then I'd sooner put myself out to draw attention to it than put myself out to accommodate it. Forcing someone to slow down is not necessarily going to be more dangerous than giving them the illusion that they have room to overtake me without slowing down.

Constant observations!!! Half the time you are looking at the road 5 yards in front of you and in some parts you are looking at your front tyre. Me thinks you are trying to hard in a high gear and are putting your head down - we have all done it, nothing to be ashamed of.

If you don't do your vids for the benefit of other people then why the hell do you post crap on here? Please don't because this not the way to ride a bike.

In fact **** it I'm gonna look at buying a camera, make some vids on how to ride a bike and post them in the beginners section and ask Admin to make them a sticky.

I look forward to this.

 

[Matthames]

Do you have mirrors? If not, I'd question why you're not looking back much more often.

Thanks for pointing that out to me

On that stretch I probably done a couple of rear observations looking at the video. Can't really explain why I didn't do as many as I should of done.

I looked at another video and counted about 150 rear observations, which equates to an average of 1 every 10 seconds. Really I should of done more, there were a few lifesaver checks I should of done which for some reason I missed out . Something for me to be aware of in future. I have noticed with my observations though that I tend to do a lot more when ever I am changing speed and direction, which is good. On a straight road, depending on how fast I am going and how heavy the traffic is, I tend to do one every 5-10 seconds with maybe the odd long gap in between.

So I would be definitely paying more attention to rear obs in future.

 

[Matthames]

One word of warning tho'.

A cyclist at 30 mph in a 30 mph limit isn't seen very often and motorists in sideroads easily misjudge our approach. They don't expect a cyclist at 30 mph.

So when I'm riding at anything over 22ish, my fingers are on the brake levers.

And BTW. If you look round TOO often, a motorist following you will well think "Keep your eyes in front of you if your going to ride like a lunatic".

That is very true. You can see in the video that the driver who pulls out of the holiday park in front of me was cutting it a little bit fine. Not a brown trouser moment by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly enough for me to consider an imminent threat.

It is probably more of an issue for me than somebody with a decent road bike, as with the road bike most people would be expecting it to be going quickly. But a fully rigid mountain bike with panniers?

 

[HLaB]

I think I'd play it by ear, so as to speak. You've left the roundabout in Primary, so I'd just stay there unless there was traffic, the occasional glance over the shoulder/ ears will answer that. If it was busy and depending how close the obstruction was I'd gradually drift from the primary to the secondary. I think the secondary would still avoid the pothole but I'm not local so I'll leave that to you judgement Matt.

 

[summerdays]

I certainly would be in primary on the roundabout and exiting it, after that I think I would have to see depending on what speed I was going at.

I've one place on one of my routes that I always go in primary:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&h...SI0obcTSRdesFnAcq4PFaw&cbp=12,184.37,,0,-1.12

Its a big downhill, and I'm going at the same speed as the cars (approx 25mph - unless its queuing) and having to brake to slow down sometimes and the road surface is bad especially in one section (that I have reported over a year ago and nothing has been done). Too much traffic around for anyone to contemplate overtaking. When ever I get to the bit I don't like I look behind and move further out ... and at the end of it I move back again. I often wonder if the motorists behind work out why I move out for that 100m or so - but I'm not holding them up anyway.

 

[AnotherEye]

That is very true. You can see in the video that the driver who pulls out of the holiday park in front of me was cutting it a little bit fine. ... It is probably more of an issue for me than somebody with a decent road bike, as with the road bike most people would be expecting it to be going quickly. But a fully rigid mountain bike with panniers?

Most motorists will just see cyclist, they won't be looking at the bike.

 

[blockend]

One main road I regularly take in the rush hour has a queue of traffic joining from a minor road on the left, or trying to cross over to the other side. The briefest pause in traffic will have a driver pulling out.
The junction is at the bottom of a long descent, not steep but enough for commuters to hit 20mph+ and roadies to make 35. Heart in mouth stuff as you watch the hubcaps rolling as you approach covering the brakes.

The safest way is to make drivers unsure of your intentions. I take primary, primary right and back to primary, pedalling hard, freewheeling and pedalling again until I'm through the junction and then resume secondary. Better drivers think 'what's this berk doing?' than 'I know what he's doing and I'll miss him by three feet if I'm quick'.

 

[AnotherEye]

From the guide to cycling (Institute of Advanced Motoring) written by John Franklin; author of Cyclecraft.

p12: Positive, tolerant and courteous attitudes reduce the risk of collisions.

p38: "... ride where you can best be seen,where you deter or prevent others from putting you at risk, and where control of your cycle is as easy as possible.

You should ride in the centre of the leftmost traffic lane (primary position) when you can keep up with the traffic; when you need to emphasise your presence to drivers behind or ahead; or when you need to deter following drivers from overtaking you because it is not safe to do so.

... When it is safe for other drivers to pass you, ride in the secondary position, about one metre to the left of the moving traffic lane, that part of the road where through-traffic is moving. note that this position should always be determined relative to the position of the traffic, not the kerb . Do not ride slavishly close to the curb where other drivers may not easily notice you. In any event never ride closer than 0.5m to the road edge as this will leave you with insufficient escape room in an emergency.
In deciding where to ride,always take into consideration the nature of the road surface. Where the surface is poor, allow yourself extra space in which to divert by keeping further out.

 

[jimboalee]

One main road I regularly take in the rush hour has a queue of traffic joining from a minor road on the left, or trying to cross over to the other side. The briefest pause in traffic will have a driver pulling out.
The junction is at the bottom of a long descent, not steep but enough for commuters to hit 20mph+ and roadies to make 35. Heart in mouth stuff as you watch the hubcaps rolling as you approach covering the brakes.

The safest way is to make drivers unsure of your intentions. I take primary, primary right and back to primary, pedalling hard, freewheeling and pedalling again until I'm through the junction and then resume secondary. Better drivers think 'what's this berk doing?' than 'I know what he's doing and I'll miss him by three feet if I'm quick'.

I'm glad you realise this.

I also hope you realise, from what has already been said on this forum and others, motorists don't always see cyclists. They don't always see motorcyclists.

Now from what you say, you KNOW there is a small likelyhood of a motorist dodging out, so why are you not slowing to give yourself distance and time enough if the silly sod does pull out?

The choice between me stopping for the idiot or T-boning him would be.... stopping.

 

[dondare]

One main road I regularly take in the rush hour has a queue of traffic joining from a minor road on the left, or trying to cross over to the other side. The briefest pause in traffic will have a driver pulling out.
The junction is at the bottom of a long descent, not steep but enough for commuters to hit 20mph+ and roadies to make 35. Heart in mouth stuff as you watch the hubcaps rolling as you approach covering the brakes.

The safest way is to make drivers unsure of your intentions. I take primary, primary right and back to primary, pedalling hard, freewheeling and pedalling again until I'm through the junction and then resume secondary. Better drivers think 'what's this berk doing?' than 'I know what he's doing and I'll miss him by three feet if I'm quick'.

Is it too awful to suggest that now and then you actually slow down a bit and give them time to pull out safely? They've got homes to go to, too.

 

[jimboalee]

Is it too awful to suggest that now and then you actually slow down a bit and give them time to pull out safely? They've got homes to go to, too.

Give way to a car pulling out into the cyclist's right of way?

How dare you suggest such a thing?