RLJ-ing: A Minority Pastime?

[Miquel In De Rain]

Why do moped/motorcyclists stand patiently at the lights only to witness some cyclist come steaming through?

 

[Scruffmonster]

Isn't it worth a journey potentially taking an extra 10-15 mins if it means you're so much less likely to get hurt (or hurt someone else)? Personally, I'd rather get to where I'm going a little later than not at all...

Any light I go through on red, there is risk in front of me and plenty behind me.

But to the people that RLJ when that's not the case... I support your point 100%.

 

[martint235]

I can't believe you are seriously suggesting someone entering an ASZ illegally is just as dangerous as someone who is driving over the alcohol limit.

Nope I'm suggesting they have equally broken the law for their own selfish purposes

 

[Scruffmonster]

Why do moped/motorcyclists stand patiently at the lights only to witness some cyclist come steaming through?

Cyclists shouldnt go steaming through

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

Out here motorcyclists/moped riders ride on the pavement to get through the traffic in the Bangkok rush-hours.Although I haven't really had a problem with this when I was busting a gut to catch a train which I eventually missed,I think the signalling system could be tweaked to what they have out here,like flashing red and yellow signals and legal left turn at lights,if it's done responsibly it would be ok,unfortunately what I see in London sometimes is just pure lunacy including steaming through ped lights.Then again I have seen some pure lunacy out here.Someone remind me to put reflectives on my suitcase,when I get back.

Oh,this doesn't mean when I get back I will be jumping the reds,I will still obey them as per usual.

 

[Buddfox]

Ah, I miss a good old RLJ thread! Where's Angelfishsolo when you need him?

 

[400bhp]

The experiment begins then.

I think I'd lose the will to live if I tried to stick it for a month, but I could do a week of each easy enough.

To reiterate for anyone that hasn't read all that went before this... I'm not talking about brazen, aggressive, speed laden RLJing at every junction.

Can we have a daily update?

 

[benb]

Nope I'm suggesting they have equally broken the law for their own selfish purposes

Well I wouldn't disagree with that, but surely the consequences have to come into it when we decide how serious the infractions are?

• Entering an ASZ illegally:
  Not even worthy of comment, as the law itself is stupid and dangerous
• Bicycle RLJ:
  Generally not acceptable (to me), but should not be blown out of proportion (which it is)
• Car RLJ:
  Worse than a bicycle doing the same, as the consequences are generally much more serious (because most of the time when cyclists RLJ, they do so quite carefully, whereas cars do not. And cars have tens if not hundreds of times higher KE)
• Driving over the alcohol limit:
  Stupid, extremely dangerous, and utterly beyond contempt

I fail to see why someone being guilty of one infraction means they then cannot comment with any credibility on others.

 

[Scruffmonster]

Can we have a daily update?

I don't know how tongue in cheek that was, (lots I guess) but no. I wouldn't have the energy for that, though I will happily release this ground breaking data when finished.

If the 'results' are anything like interesting, even if they render me uber wrong, I'll upload them all to a Strava profile. If I created two 15ish Mile segments to serve as the test, it would be a simple process to see if there was a correlation between days of crime and days of good citizenship.

 

[martint235]

Well I wouldn't disagree with that, but surely the consequences have to come into it when we decide how serious the infractions are?

• Entering an ASZ illegally:
  Not even worthy of comment, as the law itself is stupid and dangerous
• Bicycle RLJ:
  Generally not acceptable (to me), but should not be blown out of proportion (which it is)
• Car RLJ:
  Worse than a bicycle doing the same, as the consequences are generally much more serious (because most of the time when cyclists RLJ, they do so quite carefully, whereas cars do not. And cars have tens if not hundreds of times higher KE)
• Driving over the alcohol limit:
  Stupid, extremely dangerous, and utterly beyond contempt

I fail to see why someone being guilty of one infraction means they then cannot comment with any credibility on others.

If you are going to grade them then I would offer that driving after 3 pints carries the same risk as bike RLJ and car RLJ. I'm sure all perpetrators will say they've done it carefully, no one will get hurt etc etc.

I'm not defending drink driving in any way I'm just saying that at 3 pints it's criminal as is entering the ASZ illegally (and I still maintain the ASZ is of no practical use and should be done away with) and RLJing. Your view of whether or not the law regarding ASZ is stupid and dangerous (I don't see how it is dangerous as you're not compelled to use the ASZ) is irrelevant. It's the law and as discussed we shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which ones we obey.

Just to put the cat among the pigeons I would also offer that our justice system has a degree of how sorry the person is for the crime they've committed and I'd say most people who drive after 3 pints are more contrite than your average bike RLJer who will maintain he/she has a god given right to do so.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I have a feeling that the only red light nobody has ever jumped is a red light installed to protect other road users from a danger presented by cyclists. Because, in the UK as far as I know, there isn't a single one.

Does anybody know of one?

I only ask the question because where lights are in place for safety reasons, and until someone shows me an exception, they are there exclusively to protect other road users from motorised vehicles. The cyclist is simply lumped in with motor vehicles. This fact alone does not condone red light jumping, in my view, but it does certainly stop me condemning RLJing. The law should be applied equally. But the need for the law vis-à-vis cyclists does not apply.

 

[martint235]

[QUOTE 2120128, member: 45"]The only (arguably) justifiable reasons for RLJing are selfish ones, and that's about time wasted and not wanting to bother. Personal safety claims don't come into it.[/quote]
Agree entirely.

 

[Scruffmonster]

It's the law and as discussed we shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose which ones we obey.

Just to put the cat among the pigeons I would also offer that our justice system has a degree of how sorry the person is for the crime they've committed and I'd say most people who drive after 3 pints are more contrite than your average bike RLJer who will maintain he/she has a god given right to do so.

If you drive after 3 points and get caught, I assume you'd get banned from driving?
If you jump a red light and get caught, you'd get told 'Don't do that'

I've jumped a red light in full view of a police car. No action taken.
I don't rate my chances of being ignored if I'm supping a can of special brew next to the fuzz...

You can say it's AS criminal. Which is true, they are both 100% criminal offences. Yet you understand the fact that all crime isn't created equal?

 

[martint235]

I have a feeling that the only red light nobody has ever jumped is a red light installed to protect other road users from a danger presented by cyclists. Because, in the UK as far as I know, there isn't a single one.

Does anybody know of one?

I only ask the question because where lights are in place for safety reasons, and until someone shows me an exception, they are there exclusively to protect other road users from motorised vehicles. The cyclist is simply lumped in with motor vehicles. This fact alone does not condone red light jumping, in my view, but it does certainly stop me condemning RLJing. The law should be applied equally. But the need for the law vis-à-vis cyclists does not apply.

Then the law needs to be changed. I have never said I'm against changing the road laws regarding cycling, I just feel that while they are there they should be obeyed. I would like the law changed regarding me being allowed to slash the tyres of cars parked across my drive. However I fully accept that I'm probably in a slight minority with this one and therefore it's unlikely to be changed.

 

[Davidsw8]

I have a feeling that the only red light nobody has ever jumped is a red light installed to protect other road users from a danger presented by cyclists. Because, in the UK as far as I know, there isn't a single one.

Does anybody know of one?

I only ask the question because where lights are in place for safety reasons, and until someone shows me an exception, they are there exclusively to protect other road users from motorised vehicles. The cyclist is simply lumped in with motor vehicles. This fact alone does not condone red light jumping, in my view, but it does certainly stop me condemning RLJing. The law should be applied equally. But the need for the law vis-à-vis cyclists does not apply.

I might have misunderstood your point, so sorry if I have, but I think it's right for cyclists to be lumped in with motor vehicles, we're asking for the same consideration when we're amongst motor vehicles aren't we?

Also, a cyclist running a red and smacking into a pedestrian can cause a lot of injury, e.g. http://www.metro.co.uk/news/719063-cyclist-is-jailed-for-killing-by-1861-law (though that's a pavement cyclist) and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...rians-peril-Why-tartars-wheels-think-law.html (I feel slightly grubby quoting the Daily Mail but there you go ).