RLJ-ing: A Minority Pastime?

[Scruffmonster]

I know that junction well. My obvious question is, if your criteria is no interaction with pedestrian or vehicle, why jump that red light when 20 yards on is a synchronised pedestrian crossing that goes to red seconds after the first set or do you jump that one too?

I'll have to check that out tomorrow in terms of the synch, but I'll take your word for it for the point of discussion.

If there is nobody at the second set, I'll proceed there too. Like I said, my own personal opinion is that not all RLJ is created equal.

I stop more often than I jump, but the lights I jump, It'll pretty much be 100% of the time.

 

[martint235]

I'll have to check that out tomorrow in terms of the synch, but I'll take your word for it for the point of discussion.

If there is nobody at the second set, I'll proceed there too. Like I said, my own personal opinion is that not all RLJ is created equal.

I stop more often than I jump, but the lights I jump, It'll pretty much be 100% of the time.

So the follow up question is for the purpose of the stats are you one rljer or two? I would count you twice, possibly 3 times because I'd count you likely to jump the next set outside Toys R Us. Would you be happy for cars to take the same approach? If yes then as someone up thread suggested we may as well do away with lights.

 

[Jezston]

If someone really perceives themselves to be in real harms way then I don't see a problem with them chancing the red light, I just personally don't see very many cases where that applies.

I've never really understood the argument I've heard many make that they are safer jumping lights and that they believe they are going to get rear ended if they ever stop, and suchlike.

If they really feel they are in so much danger continuously riding their bike on the road that they need to consistently flout the law to feel slightly safer, I wonder why they ride a bike on the road at all.

 

[Scruffmonster]

So the follow up question is for the purpose of the stats are you one rljer or two? I would count you twice, possibly 3 times because I'd count you likely to jump the next set outside Toys R Us. Would you be happy for cars to take the same approach? If yes then as someone up thread suggested we may as well do away with lights.

I pointed that out too. You could say that I'm 1 RLJer by the poll. Yet I could jump anywhere between 0 and 10 on an average commute. Upwards of 60%, (and I think that's probably low ball), of junctions will have at least one RLJer.

Of course I wouldn't advocate cars taking the same approach. They're north of 1 tonne of metal thats several feet wide. Plus there are thousands of them.

You have your values, I'll have mine. I'm not the guy that screeches through a gap on a red at over 20mph. Nor am I creeping round the Elephant roundabout. I've never put anyone in danger by riding how I do, and I never will.

 

[Davidsw8]

You have your values, I'll have mine. I'm not the guy that screeches through a gap on a red at over 20mph. Nor am I creeping round the Elephant roundabout. I've never put anyone in danger by riding how I do, and I never will.

I cycle round some of this area and you know you can usually get where you want to go more safely by going 1 street behind? Granted, it is difficult to find a back route parallel to the Old Kent Road into town but past the Albany Road there are some good side routes.

That's what I do anyway, I wouldn't cycle round E&C roundabout.

 

[400bhp]

I pointed that out too. You could say that I'm 1 RLJer by the poll. Yet I could jump anywhere between 0 and 10 on an average commute. Upwards of 60%, (and I think that's probably low ball), of junctions will have at least one RLJer.

Of course I wouldn't advocate cars taking the same approach. They're north of 1 tonne of metal thats several feet wide. Plus there are thousands of them.

You have your values, I'll have mine. I'm not the guy that screeches through a gap on a red at over 20mph. Nor am I creeping round the Elephant roundabout. I've never put anyone in danger by riding how I do, and I never will.

That's a bold (and ultimately incorrect) statement to make.

You can mitigate risk but you can't remove it.

 

[Scruffmonster]

I cycle round some of this area and you know you can usually get where you want to go more safely by going 1 street behind? Granted, it is difficult to find a back route parallel to the Old Kent Road into town but past the Albany Road there are some good side routes.

That's what I do anyway, I wouldn't cycle round E&C roundabout.

Any suggestions of a swift New Cross to Vauxhall Bridge route appreciated....

 

[defy-one]

I totally disagree, I stop at every single red even if the street is deserted and I get where I'm going in excellent time.

In fact, my partner used to RLJ until he started to cycle to work with a mate who made him stop at all the lights and he got to work exactly the same time... and less stressed!

I don't get this attitude of 'I'll do it if I can get away with it', would that rationale carry on to cover other offences?

I suspect many cyclist that do jump pedestrian red lights would not start committing other road offences or crimes!
Some folks are liking the rlj'er to jack the ripper!

 

[Scruffmonster]

That's a bold (and ultimately incorrect) statement to make.

You can mitigate risk but you can't remove it.

True, it's a little too broadly encompassing, but you loosely see my point.

If someone or something is there, the light is red, if the coast is clear, I proceed with caution, basically.

 

[defy-one]

I've never really understood the argument I've heard many make that they are safer jumping lights and that they believe they are going to get rear ended if they ever stop, and suchlike.

If they really feel they are in so much danger continuously riding their bike on the road that they need to consistently flout the law to feel slightly safer, I wonder why they ride a bike on the road at all.

Not an argument i would use. I see the logic in stopping at most junctions, but not an empty one with no adjoining roads or pedestrians using it.
Maybe it's different in the greater london area to other parts of the country????

 

[CharlieB]

South London commute here via Streatham/Tooting/Wimbledon.
The VAST majority (80%+) of cyclist jump red lights.

I've never joined in an RLJ debate before, but I honestly think from 3¼ years doing a 10-11m commute through NW London (via as many variations as there are to get between Regent's Park and Harrow) that the %-age is nearer more than 90. It's not limited to age, gender, sartorial style, choice of bike or anything.
I gave up long ago saying anything between rude and conciliatory, because it's not going to make a hill of beans difference.

Certainly you will always catch these d###heads up at the next set, which helps to temper how cross it makes me.

 

[martint235]

That's a bold (and ultimately incorrect) statement to make.

You can mitigate risk but you can't remove it.

This.

Even by RLJing on an empty crossing you are affecting perception. The woman in the car behind you bringing her kid home from nursery will be less likely to trust the green man signal because of what she sees.

You are also forcing people to re-evaluate risks that the road rules are designed to mitigate against. The car you didn't see coming down what is a dual carriageway side street and turning right may see suddenly see a cyclist where he/she didn't expect one to be.

As stated above it is pure selfishness and although not on the level of Jack the Ripper, I feel the penalty should be enforced and then the penalty should be increased to a level where people stop doing it.

At the end of the day you are picking and choosing which laws you wish to obey on the basis of your judgement. It's a good thing that not everyone follows that example.

 

[Davidsw8]

I suspect many cyclist that do jump pedestrian red lights would not start committing other road offences or crimes!
Some folks are liking the rlj'er to jack the ripper!

lol hardly!

It's a classic case of moral relativism though, the RLJ'er is making a judgement that this particular offence is one they can happily flout but they'll abide by all the others.

Despite the immediate potential harm they place themselves into, there's the harm they can inflict on others plus the ongoing damage to the perception of cyclists generally plus the perception to other cyclists that this behaviour is permissable... and so on...

I also think that if you have a tendency to RLJ then you'll get used to it and start to do it more often. I don't think I've ever seen a cycle courier stop at a red and I think that's down to the fact that they're cycling all day and it's just something they do.

 

[martint235]

I suspect many cyclist that do jump pedestrian red lights would not start committing other road offences or crimes!
Some folks are liking the rlj'er to jack the ripper!

I suspect Jack the Ripper wouldn't start committing any other crimes either. What's your point? It is still people picking and choosing which laws they want to obey and you wouldn't want other people to do that would you?

 

[defy-one]

By that reasoning.then all drivers doing 80mph on the motorway should be pulled over, anyone playing with sat nav,stereo,phone,smoking or drinking in a car should be penalised as those are the rules.
Some rules can be broken,dependant on the scene infront of that person. A cyclist going through a deserted pedestrian crossing (because the peds crossed when there was a break in the traffi, but lights were still green),is hardly a criminal is he/she?