RLJ-ing: A Minority Pastime?

[400bhp]

[QUOTE 2117160, member: 45"]Seriously, this is an aspect that people often forget. In the same way that speeding down a street has a knock-on effect to the community it happens in, RLJing has more of an impact than people consider.[/quote]

That's an interesting point and truth be told is probably the crux of it [RLJ'ing]. Does that incremental/infinitisimally small personal jump of a red light make a difference?

-It can, at the very least, irritate other people.
-Many people now assume that cyclists automatically jump red lights.

Does it in some way lead to a less happy society/more insular society?

Clearly, it's a small cog in a very large wheel but it's something to ponder.

 

[campbellab]

That's an interesting point and truth be told is probably the crux of it [RLJ'ing]. Does that incremental/infinitisimally small personal jump of a red light make a difference?

-It can, at the very least, irritate other people.
-Many people now assume that cyclists automatically jump red lights.

Does it in some way lead to a less happy society/more insular society?

Clearly, it's a small cog in a very large wheel but it's something to ponder.

When I started commuting I can remember the rage as the driver shouted out his passenger window, we have to stop for red lights, whilst traversing a roundabout - after I skipped a ped crossing. Ped had crossed over 10 seconds+ before I got to the crossing and her button press had made the lights go red - everyone saw this, there were no other peds on the pavement, great visibility, I didn't go through at speed and this was just a normal section of straight road.

Driver couldn't fathom a logically informed choice that endangered nobody and made no difference for anyone else shouldn't be followed up by a rant whilst performing a maneuvre which endangered myself, himself and other road users.

So tis best to stick to the rules because there are a lot of raging morons out there

 

[400bhp]

I suspect there is an air of facetiousness in your post.

You might class them as morons, but we all have to get on with each other. You just believe your action affected no-one, which actually it did.

 

[Scruffmonster]

Indeed, I've seen pedestrians look surprised and grateful when I stop at a crossing even when the light was in their favor, which must be because of bad previous experiences with rljing cyclists because there was nothing in my riding style (I was going at about walking pace) other than the fact I was on a bike to suggest that I might not give way to them.

I've pulled up to a red light at a crossing and had a pedestrian wave my through. Ditto for zebra crossings.

It works both ways.

 

[Scruffmonster]

I suspect there is an air of fictitious in your post.

You might class them as morons, but we all have to get on with each other. You just believe your action affected no-one, which actually it did.

No. We're conditioned to believe that it did... but it really didnt.

You can't abandon all common sense just so you don't get shouted at.

When was the last time you/you saw anyone scream at a pedestrian for not pushing the button and then waiting for the green man, as they simply crossed the road as and when they saw fit to?

If we're going to rope in all external factors we could say silly things like;

"A cyclist or ten waiting at a needless red causes traffic to wait marginally longer as they cannot pull away instantly, thus increasing emissions, throttling traffic flow, increasing anger towards slow to start cyclists, and so on....."

I'm not really still rabbiting on to convert people, nor to advocate RLJing... but a lot of people could maybe blur the edges of their thoughts a little, just to soften them.

 

[Davidsw8]

I've pulled up to a red light at a crossing and had a pedestrian wave my through. Ditto for zebra crossings.

It works both ways.

I've had peds smile and thank me for stopping at Zebra crossing too even though it's something I'm obliged to do. It's nice but it's also a shame that they don't expect a cyclist will stop.

 

[400bhp]

So, in your opinion common sense = going through red lights?

Pedestrians have no legal obligation to cross on green at junctions by the way.

We could also say silly things like;

"A car or ten waiting at a needless red causes traffic to wait marginally longer as they cannot pull away instantly, thus increasing emissions, throttling traffic flow, increasing anger towards slow to start car drivers, and so on....."

My point is aimed squarely at the social aspect, and sometimes perhaps we have to concede that, although we might actually be right, in societal terms we need to compromise.

I'm no angel by the way and have jumped red lights too. Perhaps I need to stop doing it.

 

[Davidsw8]

"A cyclist or ten waiting at a needless red causes traffic to wait marginally longer as they cannot pull away instantly, thus increasing emissions, throttling traffic flow, increasing anger towards slow to start cyclists, and so on....."

More cyclists should get Bromptons then, I get away like nobodies business

Those Boris bikes are awful for being so slow though, I can see why people get frustrated being stuck behind them!

 

[Scruffmonster]

So, in your opinion common sense = going through red lights?

Pedestrians have no legal obligation to cross on green at junctions by the way.

We could also say silly things like;

"A car or ten waiting at a needless red causes traffic to wait marginally longer as they cannot pull away instantly, thus increasing emissions, throttling traffic flow, increasing anger towards slow to start car drivers, and so on....."

My point is aimed squarely at the social aspect, and sometimes perhaps we have to concede that, although we might actually be right, in societal terms we need to compromise.

I'm no angel by the way and have jumped red lights too. Perhaps I need to stop doing it.

No. My point is not 'Common sense = going through red lights' and you know this.

My points are also in terms of social structure. Most people, I'd say upwards of 90%, do not give a damn about cyclists sensibly rolling through some red lights. I'll apply my own common sense with regards to how I ride a bike. I do not need a set of lights running an algorithm to tell me if I can proceed in every instance.

 

[Dan B]

That's an interesting point and truth be told is probably the crux of it [RLJ'ing]. Does that incremental/infinitisimally small personal jump of a red light make a difference?

-It can, at the very least, irritate other people.
-Many people now assume that cyclists automatically jump red lights.

Does it in some way lead to a less happy society/more insular society?

Clearly, it's a small cog in a very large wheel but it's something to ponder.

For a related symptom of social malaise, see the zebra crossing down the road from my house: it connects a housing estate (maybe about 200 families) with their nearest green park/playground and a bus stop, and most of the people who use it won't step onto the carriageway until the cars have stopped already, because they (quite reasonably) don't trust 30 mph drivers to obey it.

But the problem here is not that the vehicle users (cyclists too!) are breaking the law, because most of them are not breaking the law - they're just using their greater speed and mass to legally intimidate pedestrians. Which, for the avoidance of doubt, I am against irrespective of whether it's allowed

 

[400bhp]

No. My point is not 'Common sense = going through red lights' and you know this.

My points are also in terms of social structure. Most people, I'd say upwards of 90%, do not give a damn about cyclists sensibly rolling through some red lights. I'll apply my own common sense with regards to how I ride a bike. I do not need a set of lights running an algorithm to tell me if I can proceed in every instance.

I'm not convinced about the 90%. It's often thrown at me, along with no lights so (although low on the agenda) it's still an issue. So, I'm not sure we should go down the road of putting a figure of the number of people interested or not.

Would you agree that car drivers can do the same in respect of lights too?

 

[400bhp]

For a related symptom of social malaise, see the zebra crossing down the road from my house: it connects a housing estate (maybe about 200 families) with their nearest green park/playground and a bus stop, and most of the people who use it won't step onto the carriageway until the cars have stopped already, because they (quite reasonably) don't trust 30 mph drivers to obey it.

But the problem here is not that the vehicle users (cyclists too!) are breaking the law, because most of them are not breaking the law - they're just using their greater speed and mass to legally intimidate pedestrians. Which, for the avoidance of doubt, I am against irrespective of whether it's allowed

Good example.

 

[summerdays]

For a related symptom of social malaise, see the zebra crossing down the road from my house: it connects a housing estate (maybe about 200 families) with their nearest green park/playground and a bus stop, and most of the people who use it won't step onto the carriageway until the cars have stopped already, because they (quite reasonably) don't trust 30 mph drivers to obey it.

But the problem here is not that the vehicle users (cyclists too!) are breaking the law, because most of them are not breaking the law - they're just using their greater speed and mass to legally intimidate pedestrians. Which, for the avoidance of doubt, I am against irrespective of whether it's allowed

As an adult without small children now, I always step onto the zebra crossing looking as though I intend to cross but then stop. Even then some cars will carry on. But without looking assertive about crossing the road you find that a number of drivers will ignore you. When my children were small I didn't do that.

 

[400bhp]

As an adult without small children now, I always step onto the zebra crossing looking as though I intend to cross but then stop. Even then some cars will carry on. But without looking assertive about crossing the road you find that a number of drivers will ignore you. When my children were small I didn't do that.

I had one close call about a year ago. Stepped onto a zebra crossing with my 3 year old daughter after cars had stopped. Driver overtakes the stopped car whilst on a mobile phone.

 

[Scruffmonster]

I'm not convinced about the 90%. It's often thrown at me, along with no lights so (although low on the agenda) it's still an issue. So, I'm not sure we should go down the road of putting a figure of the number of people interested or not.

Would you agree that car drivers can do the same in respect of lights too?

No.

A car weighs 1200kg, is 5 feet wide, has larger blind spots and is made of solid metal. It can do serious damage at 5mph, let alone 10mph.

Me and my bike weigh maybe 85kg combined. About the same weight as the average pedestrian.

We can't compare bikes and cars, they are not the same. Pedestrians don't treat them the same, nor do cyclists, nor do motorists. Bikes are more akin to ped's than cars.