RLJing

[400bhp]

Such is the power of negative impressions.

Such is the power for the hard of thinking.

 

[400bhp]

Of course cyclists jump lights more than motorists - myths prove it.

But let's look at it again. Suppose the propensity to RLJ was the same for a motorist and a cyclist. Let us say it is 30% (you can do the same math if you would prefer another number).

Ten cyclists and ten motorists hit a light turning red. 30% of the cyclists go through. Simples.
Or put it another way the chance of no cycles going through is .7 to power 10 or very, very small to anybody without a calculator. In other words at a busy junction it is almost certain that at least one cyclist will go through if the figure was that high.

There is a 70% chance of the first car stopping. If it stops no cars behind will go through.
There is a 30% chance of at least one car going through, 9% of two cars going through etc

Actually the flattened pedestrian probably isn't counting. The first is enough. So it looks on these assumptions that cyclists are way over 3 times as likely to jump as a motorist (when the real intention is the same). So cyclists are mostly bad boys aren't they? But the observable result its just that in practice any good cyclist (the majority) cannot stop the rot of bad cyclists. It takes only one good motorist to stop the rot of bad motorists.

I know the model above is a bit simplistic but the principle is there. Cyclists have to be hugely more law abiding than motorists before we would see parity in cycles and motors crossing the stop line. If they are only twice as law abiding they will still look bad as a group.

That's actually a very good way of explaining it (I guess to maths bores like me).

What we really should say that perhaps people don't differentiate (change behaviour to) red light jumping by the mode of transport they operate.

 

[robjh]

RLJ (or perceptions of RLJ) by cyclists and drivers tend to be two different behaviours. Considerable numbers of drivers pass red lights just after they have changed, but this phenomenon lasts only a few seconds after the lights change. Almost no drivers, on arriving at an already-red light, will proceed straight through it.
Some cyclists may also do the first type, but this is not the RLJ that gets noticed - that is the second type, which is almost unique to cyclists. Now we all know that it is practised by only a small minority, but it stands out as car drivers do not do it.
Any comparisons of the % of RLJ by each group are fairly meaningless if this basic difference is not taken into account.

 

[classic33]

Local roundabout has frequent red light jumping, by drivers. Often long after they've gone to red.
As cyclists we lack that same power , and protection, to get us through most red lights.

 

[mjr]

Local roundabout has frequent red light jumping, by drivers. Often long after they've gone to red.
As cyclists we lack that same power , and protection, to get us through most red lights.

Same here, especially for the A47 eastbound to A149 northeastbound movement Look before you pull out, even on green, just like good instructors teach.

 

[mustang1]

When I drive and slow down at a zebra crossing waiting for the person to cross, I start cursing "why the hell isnt this guy crossing already?" but then it occurs to me that he's looking out for his own safety because many car/van drivers do not stop at zebra crossing or red lights.

@op: I think you gave that guy a good pression of a cyclist stopping when required and put a positive image of us in his head. (Later I will go out and undo the good you have done )

 

[mustang1]

I think the comparrison between red light jumping cars is, whilst accurate...a bit pointless.

We are all part ofbthebcar driving tribe and as such none of us are prepared to accept that we do wrong...even though we know we do.

But most people feel that cyclists are "others". They choose to be a bit weird, a bit different...so they deserve suspicion and besides, they think that, as I'm not one of them (and neither are most my mates) its good banter to join the bandwagon and knock them.

Pointing out that their own tribe is worse and decidedly more dangerous is a waste if time.

Better to lead by example and clean up our own act, untill the perception is that we are more aware, more diligent, more careful and more intelligent.

Perhaps, one day...more cool too.

Which is why I advocate specific licenses for those cycling within large cities. ( not elsewhere...just in large cities, during peak times)

Sorry, edit. When I say cyclist, I mean cycle commuters

I agree with most of your opinion .

Except that bit about licenses.

 

[mustang1]

First drive-thru in the country that was.

I went there on my bike and the lady told me I'm not allowed to be there on my bike.

 

[benb]

I don't condone RLJ, but it is blown out of all proportion to the actual harm.

Yes, some cyclists RLJ, but they KSI almost no-one doing so.
Some motorists RLJ, and KSI hundreds.
The same offence, but only one group is posing significant harm to others.
Yet for some reason, the RLJ by cyclists is perceived as more widespread and as more of a problem than RLJ by drivers.

I was lucky enough to cycle in Paris last year, and they allow cyclists to treat certain reds as give way (where you don't cross another lane, so right turns (left in the UK) or straight on where a road is joining from the left (joining from right in the UK)).
It works very well, and I wish politicians in the UK would have the stones to implement something similar.

 

[martint235]

I don't condone RLJ, but it is blown out of all proportion to the actual harm.

Yes, some cyclists RLJ, but they KSI almost no-one doing so.
Some motorists RLJ, and KSI hundreds.
The same offence, but only one group is posing significant harm to others.
Yet for some reason, the RLJ by cyclists is perceived as more widespread and as more of a problem than RLJ by drivers.

I was lucky enough to cycle in Paris last year, and they allow cyclists to treat certain reds as give way (where you don't cross another lane, so right turns (left in the UK) or straight on where a road is joining from the left (joining from right in the UK)).
It works very well, and I wish politicians in the UK would have the stones to implement something similar.

Using KSI figures does not show up the fear it obviously instils in pedestrians as I witnessed. That is harm I believe.

It's true that the perception is that it's more widespread than with drivers but that's not going to get any better by just allowing it to continue.

FWIW, in my neck of the woods the perception of drivers jumping red lights seems to be increasing, it's even becoming a topic of conversation and is a valid response in a pub debate to "all cyclists jump reds". It used to just get waved away by other participants but now I find people saying "Yeah you're right. Only the other day a car jumped a red right in front of me" etc. It's a start.

 

[Nibor]

I recently on a Sunday morning got stuck at a red light which wouldn't respond to me so I dimounted and walked around it rather than running it.

 

[benb]

Using KSI figures does not show up the fear it obviously instils in pedestrians as I witnessed. That is harm I believe.

Yes, I agree that is also harm.
But it's still massively less harm than that inflicted by drivers, which goes either unnoticed or unremarkable.
I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it's massively less of a problem than that posed by drivers and is completely blown out of proportion.

 

[Tin Pot]

If the lights are not at a junction, and there are no pedestrians, and there is only a taxi driver to see it - is it RLJing?

 

[jonny jeez]

I agree with most of your opinion .

Except that bit about licenses.

Yes, that last bit tends to split opinion but its really not as weird as it sounds.

A trained, card carrying, fully licenced rider, entering a city with full knowledge and understanding...would be better qualified than the other road users.

Plus, we could police riders who break the terms of their licence and throw the off of city roads.

If nothing else, it would remove an argument that city cyclists are a law unto themselves, may even earn us some respect.

 

[Tim Hall]

Or old bill.



Camera fingy on top...yes I know it isn't a camera but I sometimes shine my light @ it and it seems to work down Sumner Street near Blackfriars Bridge and Cannon Street (That one is now lying upside down).Whether it works during the day is debatable.

Correct, it's not a camera. Incorrect, shining your light has no effect on it. It's a doppler radar, which detects things moving towards it, such as a car, bus or in your case, bike.