Roads 'too dangerous' for cyclists BBC poll suggests

[vickster]

Now here's a thing, stuff cycle-lanes, (mostly they're crapp) and instead build more bus lanes at the expense of car space. Several birds killed with one stone.
London is actually one of the best and easiest cities to ride around thanks to a lot of bus lanery.

Just need to do away with black cabs, public transport my arse, stinky, slow moving, badly driven nuisances imo

 

[User16625]

I also have to agree. General road riding is fine. However large roundabouts can be lethal. Also turning right at very busy junctions can be just as bad. Im lucky enough not to live in a city. This itself makes my cycling much safer than it would otherwise be.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Some, too many, drivers don't actually register the fact that I'm there to go out of their way to drive badly around me. I actually find this more depressing than those drivers that do drive badly around me because they hate cyclists. I don't think it's because they are distracted per se, it's because they just have no sense of care outside of their box.

"going out of their way" to be unconsciously incompetant as drivers. Once upon a time they weren't. It isn't ordained by the gods, or evolution, that one drives on auto-pilot at any time. Being sloppy? It's a choice.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I also have to agree. General road riding is fine. However large roundabouts can be lethal. Also turning right at very busy junctions can be just as bad. Im lucky enough not to live in a city. This itself makes my cycling much safer than it would otherwise be.

A general point prompted by your post....

Try this thought experiment thobut. Or carry it out for real. Imagine riding that large roundabout at 03:00 am of a Saturday morning, or turning right on that junction at 03:30. Imagine it again at 08:00 and 08:30. And at 11:00 and 11:30. What is different about the experience each time comparing one to the other...

So is the problem the route/the road/the roundabout/the junction or the behaviour of the other road users?

As to city v country... fairly sure the accident stats for rural cyclists are sh1te.

 

[vickster]

No, I think everyone now is just more stressed and impatient nowadays, trying to do too much. And the lack of space in the UK serves to compound, lack of good old fashioned manners too

Obviously some people are just thuggish, thick c****, and some of them probably ride bikes too, motorbikes, horses, fly hot air balloons....

I think there is a good proportion of people who have either never learnt to drive or learnt or to drive elsewhere in the world on the other side of the road, in a free for all...

 

[vickster]

A general point prompted by your post....

Try this thought experiment thobut. Or carry it out for real. Imagine riding that large roundabout at 03:00 am of a Saturday morning, or turning right on that junction at 03:30. Imagine it again at 08:00 and 08:30. And at 11:00 and 11:30. What is different about the experience each time comparing one to the other...

So is the problem the route/the road/the roundabout/the junction or the behaviour of the other road users?

As to city v country... fairly sure the accident stats for rural cyclists are sh1te.

It's not necessarily behaviour, but sheer volume in the same space

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Well the driver who knocked me off wasn't on the phone, not distracted as far as I know but he probably was in the wrong lane for where he wanted to go, like about 90% of drivers at that junction as two lanes merge into one. He misjudged the gap and the fact that cyclists can be wobbly when out of the saddle trying to get away from lights.

Unlike many on here it seems, I do believe that accidents happen that no one means to happen (I've been involved in them myself). We don't live in a perfect world (not even the Dutch do when it comes to cyclists, the infrastructure is simply better and uk issues are not the fault of road users per se).

I am genuinely sorry you got hurt and it has affected how you feel. But for me the bits in bold simply describe incompetant driving around other, and more vulnerable, road users. Unacceptable, and the driver was culpable, morally if not legally, for it.

 

[vickster]

It was an accident. He made a mistake. If you feel this makes him incompetent so be it. Accidents happen. We don't live in a perfect world, it's how you deal with this lack of perfection and your actions that count in my view. He was very sorry for what happened and shocked It hasn't affected the way I feel on this.

 

[MacB]

It was an accident. He made a mistake. If you feel this makes him incompetent so be it. Accidents happen. We don't live in a perfect world, it's how you deal with this lack of perfection and your actions that count in my view. He was very sorry for what happened and shocked It hasn't affected the way I feel on this.

I take your point but I don't think that's what Greg was 'driving' at. We have an acceptance of an accidents will happen style towards large heavy chunks of metal machinery being driven at high speeds near and around us....by us I mean pedestrians, cyclists and any other road user or local resident. This acceptance goes far beyond almost anything else a perfect example being the regs that tipper trucks need to adhere to on site when crawling around at a snails pace. Let them off the site and it can become more like a free for all.

I think Greg is highlighting that the starting point for driving is way off base, the training inadequate and the 'normality' attributed to negligence when in charge of such powerful beasts borders on insanity.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I take your point but I don't think that's what Greg was 'driving' at. We have an acceptance of an accidents will happen style towards large heavy chunks of metal machinery being driven at high speeds near and around us....by us I mean pedestrians, cyclists and any other road user or local resident. This acceptance goes far beyond almost anything else a perfect example being the regs that tipper trucks need to adhere to on site when crawling around at a snails pace. Let them off the site and it can become more like a free for all.

I think Greg is highlighting that the starting point for driving is way off base, the training inadequate and the 'normality' attributed to negligence when in charge of such powerful beasts borders on insanity.

The only point I would take issue with is "borders on insanity."

As it is beyond insanity imo.

 

[summerdays]

I was chatting to a new cyclist today, he has borrowed a bike with the hope of commuting and is having some 1:1 lessons, however he hasn't cycled since he was a child, and was finding it difficult to control his bike. He's too nervous to cycle on the road and it sounds as though he isn't ready for it yet, so he needs help to find a good route (which is what we were chatting about), and someone to help him build up his confidence and skills. He can drive but petrified to be on the roads with cars.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It's not necessarily behaviour, but sheer volume in the same space

When I go out running I find I have to slow down if I run along a crowded pavement with a large volume of other pedestrians, say in our town centre on a saturday morning. I modify my behaviour.
If I ran into that same town centre whilst carrying a running chain-saw you would expect me to take even greater care no?

Drivers must modify their behaviour in the shared space that is our roads in exactly the same way. If that involves choosing to do less stuff in general rather than be impatient and be less stressed when driving that could only be a good thing for all concerned.

 

[sidevalve]

I take your point but I don't think that's what Greg was 'driving' at. We have an acceptance of an accidents will happen style towards large heavy chunks of metal machinery being driven at high speeds near and around us....by us I mean pedestrians, cyclists and any other road user or local resident. This acceptance goes far beyond almost anything else a perfect example being the regs that tipper trucks need to adhere to on site when crawling around at a snails pace. Let them off the site and it can become more like a free for all.

I think Greg is highlighting that the starting point for driving is way off base, the training inadequate and the 'normality' attributed to negligence when in charge of such powerful beasts borders on insanity.

Whatever the other points be they valid or not mentioning the driving test is a bit odd. However bad/useless/inadequate it may be it is still slightly better than the one any cyclist has to undergo. No I am not going to get involved in the "Oh cyclists don't count" or "how could such a thing be administered" here [even less the "we don't need one 'cos we're all perfect"] but to be honest a cyclist can be almost blind stone deaf and totally unaware of the highway code and still be allowed to ride around untill he/she causes an accident. Complaining about the test seems a bit like the old stones and glass houses proverb.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

What are the stats for accidents caused by almost blind stone deaf HC unaware cyclists?

Versus how many able bodied folk KSI'd by motor vehicles in the last twelve months?

Just so we get a handle on the comparative risks like.

 

[uclown2002]

I'm a much better driver than I was 3 years ago; coincidentally the time I bought my first bike.