Roads 'too dangerous' for cyclists BBC poll suggests

[_aD]

Since I've been looking at road/accident stats today, I thought this might help quantify what may be otherwise opinions. Stats are for 2012 as the casualties by road type and user type not yet available.

As to city v country... fairly sure the accident stats for rural cyclists are sh1te.

Traffic count stats
Urban roads: 2,309 million miles cycled
Rural roads: 209 million miles cycled

Cyclist casualty rates 2012
Urban roads:
24 killed
1,075 seriously injured
6,914 total casualties

Rural roads:
76 killed
930 seriously injured
4,051 total casualties

My interpretation of the data is thus:
For every million miles cycled in 2012:
Urban roads:
0.01 cyclists killed
0.47 cyclists seriously injured
2.99 total cyclist casualties

Rural roads:
0.36 cyclists killed
4.45 cyclists seriously injured
19.38 total cyclist casualties

In 2012 you were 11 times more likely to be cycling in an urban area, but 97% less likely to be killed, 91% less likely to be seriously injured and 87% less likely to be any type of casualty. I got to these figures by dividing the K/S/I figure for the road type by the sum of the K/S/I figures per million miles for both roads. i.e.: 0.01039524 killed/million urban miles divided by (0.01039524 + 0.3633512459 killed/milion rural) = 2.78%. I am not completely sure I have described the function of this correctly nor if the actual description of the function is meaningless. Maybe someone could clarify. Please don't go quoting this until someone's told me off or told me I'm right :-)

1 CPU core taxed for several minutes just processing the spreadsheets.
IAAMOLL (I Am A More Or Less Listener)

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Cycling only on urban roads would be great. But I can't get to work that way!

More than three times the number of deaths rural vs urban for roughly 1/10th the mileage. Serious injuries more or less on a par ball park wise. Seems to me the risk on rural roads of being KSI is horribly greater than in an urban context no?

 

[_aD]

Cycling only on urban roads would be great. But I can't get to work that way!

Just to clarify when I said "In 2012 you were..." I meant "us lot of cyclists in a national, annual mean average".

 

[John the Monkey]

Well the driver who knocked me off wasn't on the phone, not distracted as far as I know but he probably was in the wrong lane for where he wanted to go, like about 90% of drivers at that junction as two lanes merge into one. He misjudged the gap and the fact that cyclists can be wobbly when out of the saddle trying to get away from lights.

I've had one drive through my back wheel attempting to get on to a roundabout, and one side swipe me trying to beat me around an illegally parked DHL van.

In both cases, they could have made their manoeuvres safely, if they'd waited around half a second.

Unlike many on here it seems, I do believe that accidents happen that no one means to happen (I've been involved in them myself). We don't live in a perfect world (not even the Dutch do when it comes to cyclists, the infrastructure is simply better and uk issues are not the fault of road users per se).

Not necessarily - but the default here seems to be a sort of indifference to anything other than a pointless alacrity. Whereas when I ride in France and Belgium, the default seems to be "careful".

Look in the windows of cars, whether you're riding or being a passenger (look if you're driving, but only if you can maintain concentration, please), look at the number texting, on their phones, or distracting themselves in some other way. Watch the people who will accelerate, or bowl along at speed limit +10 even if they're heading for a red light and a queue of traffic. Look at the number of people who seem incapable of reading the road much beyond their bonnet, or simply don't care that much about it.

There probably are some genuine accidents, (in that the collision could not have been prevented) but a lot of people are leaving themselves precious little margin for error, based on what I see in Manchester.

 

[John the Monkey]

Whilst I applaud the use of hard data, it doesn't tell the whole story; no one was injured when I was punishment passed by a bus driver incensed that he couldn't pass me by a traffic island, for example. Or when drivers tailgate me if I take the lane past a pinch point, or close pass because they have a mug/2 litre bottle of water/other in one hand (and presumably are unwilling to steer too much in case they spill their beverage).

It doesn't make for a welcoming cycling environment though. And the people who "survive" this and continue commuting, loath though I am to blow our own horn, are pretty skilful, fit and experienced - a self selecting group that probably contribute significantly to keeping those stats low. (F'rinstance, I routinely modify my speed on approach to pinch points now, as I can't rely on drivers giving me safe room to pass; I try to get there after the cars so the conflict doesn't arise; I avoid particular roundabouts precisely because drivers on one junction never look properly upon entry, it goes on).

 

[vickster]

Of course it's not acceptable, but in my case, the traffic was heavy, cars changing lanes, I don't know exactly what happened behind me, I didn't see it happen, it just did. I may have wobbled into his path, I don't know. He was behind me. Accidents happen, driver acted honourably, he'll be penalised through his insurance premiums for years to come. He is in no way anti cyclist, he made an error.

The police and ambulance were impeccable...I was unlucky that an accident many might have walked away from left me injured. I could have clipped a kerb at speed through my own action or slid on wet leaves or any other manner of thing involving no one else but myself and had the same consequence, or worse.

I have a far bigger gripe with my local A&E but that's another story, they too acted as they felt they should.

That's it from me

 

[_aD]

F'rinstance, I routinely modify my speed on approach to pinch points now, as I can't rely on drivers giving me safe room to pass

I modify my road position. I move into the middle or right-hand side of the lane.

 

[John the Monkey]

I modify my road position. I move into the middle or right-hand side of the lane.

I've done the same, after first making an assessment of how likely the driver is to tailgate me through/punishment pass afterward. If you can avoid the conflict entirely by slowing a bit on the approach, the whole hobsons choice of take the lane or get squeezed can be avoided.

 

[summerdays]

Whilst I applaud the use of hard data, it doesn't tell the whole story; no one was injured when I was punishment passed by a bus driver incensed that he couldn't pass me by a traffic island, for example. Or when drivers tailgate me if I take the lane past a pinch point, or close pass because they have a mug/2 litre bottle of water/other in one hand (and presumably are unwilling to steer too much in case they spill their beverage).

It doesn't make for a welcoming cycling environment though. And the people who "survive" this and continue commuting, loath though I am to blow our own horn, are pretty skilful, fit and experienced - a self selecting group that probably contribute significantly to keeping those stats low. (F'rinstance, I routinely modify my speed on approach to pinch points now, as I can't rely on drivers giving me safe room to pass; I try to get there after the cars so the conflict doesn't arise; I avoid particular roundabouts precisely because drivers on one junction never look properly upon entry, it goes on).

I agree, regular cyclists get used to a certain level of close passes, and taking precautions to prevent certain situations happening if we can, and we forget that even those closes passes that don't rate on our radar are in reality too close, and very scary for the new cyclist.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Much as I'd love to agree that every urban cyclist is the epitome of riding skills, or at least the majority are above the curve I see enough to cause doubt. Most are average, some are terrible, probably an equal number are great. This forum, just like most specialist ones, has a good probability for having riders in the good group in it because we are self selecting. We care enough about cycling to spend/waste a bunch of time on here talking about it which immediately puts us in a different group to those who just get on a bike and go somewhere. We care enough to think and talk about it which means we are much more likely to be better.

If you want to fix problems you need to work out how to effect the people that don't care and because they don't care they don't think, and they see no point in starting to think. That's probably the majority of road users. They are not interested in the act of using the road, they are interested in being where they are going. Sometimes the best people who care can do is to add looking out for the ones that don't to their list.

The fact is that you can get away with an awful lot of stupid before something bad happens. Every 'not crash' we see every day is people getting away with stupid and learning nothing positive from it. Worse, they are probably learning that that standard is adequate and they don't need to be better, in fact possibly they could risk being worse.

The thing is, they outnumber the people that want to make things better by making their lives harder, so I wouldn't hold my breath and I applaud anyone with the perseverance to try and make that happen.

 

[_aD]

I've done the same, after first making an assessment of how likely the driver is to tailgate me through/punishment pass afterward. If you can avoid the conflict entirely by slowing a bit on the approach, the whole hobsons choice of take the lane or get squeezed can be avoided.

Agreed - estimating the intentions and the likely situation will help keep one safer...especially if you're approaching a situation where you think there may be trouble.

 

[slowmotion]

Agreed - estimating the intentions and the likely situation will help keep one safer...especially if you're approaching a situation where you think there may be trouble.

Spot on. It also helps not to have too much pride about your "rights". Be assertive but not to the extent of pushing your luck. We are only soft tissue and bones. Vehicles are steel and have a lot of kinetic energy.

 

[ufkacbln]

The problem is defining "accident" and "mistake"

There is a local "mistake"

The man accused of causing death by careless driving over a horrific ambulance crash in the New Forest which killed a paramedic and patient has been found not guilty.

Richard Husband, 26, didn't see or hear the ambulance overtaking on the A337 Brockenhurst to Lyndhurst road, and attempted to himself overtake a silver Skoda Yeti that had pulled over to allow the vehicle to safely pass, the court was told.

Prosecutors alleged that Husband had failed to check his mirror before pulling out into the path of the ambulance, which the defendant denied.

He also said he had not been distracted by music played through the car’s speakers by three teenagers who were in the vehicle at the time of the collision.

During his evidence, he told the court that he had checked his right wing mirror, although added: “I didn’t check my rear view mirror.

“I didn’t check my blind spot.”

Genuine mistake as decided by the jury, ar an appallingly bad driver who failed to take the most basic precautions before manoeuvring his car into the path of one of the most visible and audible vehicles on the road with fatal consequences?

 

[summerdays]

The problem is defining "accident" and "mistake"

There is a local "mistake"





Genuine mistake as decided by the jury, ar an appallingly bad driver who failed to take the most basic precautions before manoeuvring his car into the path of one of the most visible and audible vehicles on the road with fatal consequences?

Maybe we ought to be banning stereo's in cars since motorists think it's unsafe for cyclists to listen to music.

But how he could be found not guilty when he didn't do the most basic of checks in a car, he isn't safe to be driving. The minute a vehicle/anyone starts doing something you are not expecting, the first thought is why and to slow down yourself.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

26 yr old, three teenagers in the car, maybe Operation Yewtree should take a look...

You just have to hope the court had a lot more info. There are some twisty bits to that road, plus dips and people do just pull over. From the info we gave it sounds suspect though.

A good friend is a paramedic in Oxford, his tales of peoples behaviour when they are on blues & twos are quite scary. Unfortunately, being Oxford, a lot of them involve cyclists.