Rugby at school level

[GrumpyGregry]

I was never taught or coached how to tackle as a school kid though I was used as a tackle bag for the whole of the third year.

 

[Jimidh]

Compulsory home economics and dietary lessons then?

Your both right - healthy eating and the ability to find an activity that suits students should be key part of the curriculum.

I was never happier at a school when I was getting wet and muddy at PE but it wasn’t till I was older that I realised that physical contact sports aren’t for everyone and schools should ( and lots now do) try to get kids into other forms of sport and physical activity so that lots more kids can find a love of their own sports.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

And I could argue, based on my experience of reffing schools rugby, that many, dare I say most, state school PE teachers have scarcely a clue and should not be allowed to supervise full contact games even if played to the U18 Law variations. Unsafe.

And one independent school hereabouts needed to take a long hard look at how it coached its inner-city scholarship boys at U15 when they've never played before.

 

[lazybloke]

Compulsory home economics and dietary lessons then?

Eh? I didn't suggest that PE & cooking/nutrition are mutually exclusive. In fact, I'm pretty sure that cooking, nutrition and PE are already compulsory elements of the national curriculum; they certainly should be.

From what I saw of the BMJ article, rugby is associated with a considerably higher rate of concussions than sports like Ice Hockey and American football. Should we be looking at armour?

I've just seen the "World Rugby" response to the BMJ, which casts some doubt on the validity of the BMJ stats, but since the BMJ report is behind a paywall I can't look closer.

Amusingly, World Rugby's rebuttal is followed by an admission that rugby risks do need to be mitigated. There is an acknowledgement that "safe tackling" is an essential skill that needs to be taught. There is even talk of a structured progression between non-contact rugby and contact forms of the game.


I will have to speak to my son's school to find out they have the same common-sense approach to teaching rugby. I'd like to know that there is such a progression.

Oh dear, I just saw the argument by the RFU Chairman, who says the risks are outweighed by the benefits to be gained from the sport.
Think he needs to try much harder than that; as those same benefits can easily be delivered without the risks.

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

those same benefits can easily be delivered without the risks.

Exactly.

 

[mustang1]

I am erring on the side of banning it. I get what others say about their are other dangers out there we should concentrate on instead, but rough contact sports seem a bit much for me.

Disclaimer: I've never played rugby or know anyone who does so idk what training they do/don't get.

Ps American football seems rougher but they also wear more protective gear. Am I on to something here?

 

[Crackle]

So boxing in schools helps in dealing with problems like bullying? By teaching boys to hit each other round the head? Right.

I suppose it works the same way as for all sports by boosting self~confidence, etc, there are though many ways of achieving the same thing minus the inherent head injury risks.

 

[Crackle]

In that case, perhaps rugby and boxing should be compulsory for girls then?

I don't see why girls shouldn't play rugby or box if we're talking about participation rather than whether it's a safe sport.

 

[Bollo]

I played rugby at a reasonable standard as a kid (county and regional) but gave up when I was 19 after a season where I suffered three concussions. This was back in the '80s so the last knockings of amateurism, but there certainly wasn't any concern about the short or long term effects of head injuries. The choice to stop was all my own - nobody would have objected if I'd have carried on. Injuries of any kind were treated as a badge of honour and an inevitable part of the game, which looking back I resent as it left me with some longer term damage. It also explains why I'm such a handsome cove.

From a friend who's son plays rugby now, the RFL seems to make the right noises about protections for kids, but that doesn't always seem to translate fully into the actions of coaches or the behaviour of kids on the pitch.

Apologies if this has been mentioned upthread because I've only been dipping in and out, but the NFL ('merkin footy) has been going litigation-crazy over that last couple of years over the long term lack of safeguarding for concussion injuries.

 

[Crackle]

I've skipped through the thread and

That's not my point. Girls do play rugby if they want to, and learn to box. It's the idea that the way to improve any child's self-confidence is to make them play rough at school that is so spurious. As you said yourself, there are many and better ways. If adults choose to play rough sprts or fight each other, that's up to them, but to suggest, as several have, that making boys at school do these things is to prepare them for the real world (which girls also inhabit) and to somehow 'make men of them' is damaging and deeply suspect.

The 'make men' bit, is that not just a very outdated way of expressing the values you hope to instill, such as teamwork, discipline, respect, control along with the softer aspects of self~worth, maturity, confidence etc...

I know from my own time with my children that if you wanted to see naked uncontrolled aggresion and old fashioned views loudly expressed, get them involved in grass roots football. I could write an essay on my contempt for this sport at that level.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Eh? I didn't suggest that PE & cooking/nutrition are mutually exclusive. In fact, I'm pretty sure that cooking, nutrition and PE are already compulsory elements of the national curriculum; they certainly should be.

From what I saw of the BMJ article, rugby is associated with a considerably higher rate of concussions than sports like Ice Hockey and American football. Should we be looking at armour?

I've just seen the "World Rugby" response to the BMJ, which casts some doubt on the validity of the BMJ stats, but since the BMJ report is behind a paywall I can't look closer.

Amusingly, World Rugby's rebuttal is followed by an admission that rugby risks do need to be mitigated. There is an acknowledgement that "safe tackling" is an essential skill that needs to be taught. There is even talk of a structured progression between non-contact rugby and contact forms of the game.


I will have to speak to my son's school to find out they have the same common-sense approach to teaching rugby. I'd like to know that there is such a progression.

Oh dear, I just saw the argument by the RFU Chairman, who says the risks are outweighed by the benefits to be gained from the sport.
Think he needs to try much harder than that; as those same benefits can easily be delivered without the risks.

Mouthguards need to be compulsory for school PE rugby maybe?

Sean Fitzpatrick was on Today on Radio 4 this morning making all sorts of good points about weight equality and adequate coaching.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I know from my own time with my children that if you wanted to see naked uncontrolled aggresion and old fashioned views loudly expressed, get them involved in grass roots football. I could write an essay on my contempt for this sport at that level.

True of grass roots rugby too, though the most shocking view stuff tends to come from CTP (crazy touchline parents) at the 'better' sort of rugby club ime. On pitch excesses do often get called out as "soccer values" mind.

 

[Jimidh]

In that case, perhaps rugby and boxing should be compulsory for girls then?

Lots of girls play rugby now.

 

[nickyboy]

I've skipped through the thread and

The 'make men' bit, is that not just a very outdated way of expressing the values you hope to instill, such as teamwork, discipline, respect, control along with the softer aspects of self~worth, maturity, confidence etc...

I know from my own time with my children that if you wanted to see naked uncontrolled aggresion and old fashioned views loudly expressed, get them involved in grass roots football. I could write an essay on my contempt for this sport at that level.

Standing on the touchline most weekends watching school rugby (and having played school rugby myself) I guess I have a reasonable idea of the benefits in playing

What I see are pupils learning the benefits of teamwork, cooperation, friendship and camaraderie. At the same time they learn to respect authority, abide by rules and to take pride in the institutions they represent.

All these things are equally true of netball, hockey, football or any other team sport played at school. The benefits or school rugby are nothing to do with "handling the knocks" and "making men of them". It's an excellent framework for instilling values that, as a society, we value

Were one to go and see a school rugby game you would see very little "unnecessary roughness", a lot of polite behavior between opposing teams, a lot of sportsmanship and a bunch of kids after the game getting along famously

 

[Bollo]

....
I know from my own time with my children that if you wanted to see naked uncontrolled aggresion and old fashioned views loudly expressed, get them involved in grass roots football. I could write an essay on my contempt for this sport at that level.

Hell yeah! Luckily I've never had to go through that particular mincer but I know a few people who have. Karting is also supposed to be brutal.

I've mentioned before that Bolletta figure skates - not to any great level - but enough for me to occasionally meet the foulest of pushy, aggressive, bigoted, live-through-their-children parents. They might not be hurling verbals at the top of their voices from the sidelines, but what is said can be every bit as nasty. It's ancient history now, but you've never heard of Tonya Harding, here's the link. To your average skate-parent, this isn't so much shocking more than an extrapolation of some of the attitudes you encounter. Ironically, she tried to get into boxing after being banned.