Schoolchildren crossing at Junctions

[downfader]

Evolution in action - improve the gene pool....

[Pedant] That is not how evolution works... Evolution is more about a sexual partner subconsciously choosing favourable characteristics that their offspring might inherit. What you are describing is purely down to either luck or negligence. [/pedant]

 

[Spinney]

[Pedant] That is not how evolution works... Evolution is more about a sexual partner subconsciously choosing favourable characteristics that their offspring might inherit. What you are describing is purely down to either luck or negligence. [/pedant]

[pedant]
I disagree. What you describe is one aspect of sexual selection, and only one way in which natural selection can take place.
There is also the fact that organisms fittest to survive in their current environment are more likely to breed and pass on said successful characteristics. In the environment where death on the roads is a possibility, removing those stupid enough to get run over means the ones left are of a slightly higher standard overall, wrt surviving the roads, at least. [/pedant]

 

[donnydave]

On my way to work on the good old cambridge guided busway as I pass through Histon approaching the Cambridge Regional College there's normally an army of schoolkids coming towards me. They clump together in large groups, some walking, some on bikes weaving around. The ones walking are staring at their shoes. The ones who do look up at you still don't register your presence. You hear all sorts of nightmare tales about people being berated by parents for telling off their little angels (don't tell me how to raise my kids etc etc). Luckily the ones I meet all travel to school on their own so they can be initiated into the real world. I actually felt a bit sorry for one poor girl who I shouted "WAKE UP AND MOVE OVER" using the same exasperated tone I expect many would use on their own children (don't have any kids myself but plenty of experience looking after nephews/niece (although in some peoples view this isn't good enough to have any valid opinions on children - that's a separate rant though!)). Anyway, she did indeed wake up pale faced and wide eyed in shock and actually mumbled "sorry". I also like to shout variations on "PICK A SIDE" to the ones who just wander around in the middle and you don't know which side to pass them. Ringing your bell if they have their back to you is often basically suicide as you startle them into randomly jumping around the place. The upshot of all this is that most of the kids using that path now recognise me and over the last couple of years their "lane discipline" has improved no end.

 

[downfader]

[pedant]
I disagree. What you describe is one aspect of sexual selection, and only one way in which natural selection can take place.
There is also the fact that organisms fittest to survive in their current environment are more likely to breed and pass on said successful characteristics. In the environment where death on the roads is a possibility, removing those stupid enough to get run over means the ones left are of a slightly higher standard overall, wrt surviving the roads, at least. [/pedant]

That is still not survival of the fittest.... motoring can kill indiscriminately even the most fit and strong, and its entirely non-biological. Yes I agree evolution is about success but you're conflating the man-made with the natural order of things

 

[Markymark]

That is still not survival of the fittest.... motoring can kill indiscriminately even the most fit and strong, and its entirely non-biological. Yes I agree evolution is about success but you're conflating the man-made with the natural order of things

Only run over idiots. Sorted.

 

[Spinney]

That is still not survival of the fittest.... motoring can kill indiscriminately even the most fit and strong, and its entirely non-biological. Yes I agree evolution is about success but you're conflating the man-made with the natural order of things

But in this case we are talking about motoring killing the ones without the brain power (or at least, those that don't bother to use what brain power they have) to look before crossing the road. If we were talking about random deaths on the road that were not the fault of the pedestrians, then you would be correct.
In evolutionary terms, 'fit' means 'suited to the environment' (not necessarily anything to do with being strong or 'fit' in the athletic sense). And in this case, the environment includes moving metal boxes. The fact that they are man-made is irrelevant.
It would be the same effect if heedless teenagers were killed by falling rocks because they walked without looking under a cliff that was known to shed rocks regularly.
The weather is non-biological, but evolution has fitted some animals to survive in cold climates, others in hot.

 

[hennbell]

That is still not survival of the fittest.... motoring can kill indiscriminately even the most fit and strong, and its entirely non-biological. Yes I agree evolution is about success but you're conflating the man-made with the natural order of things

Spinney is right.

 

[briantrumpet]

Kids = be prepared for any eventuality.

Hmm, yes, one fractured radial head later...

Two children by fast main road ... they carefully looked right, carefully looked left, carefully looked right, at me (or rather, though me), doing about 25mph ... then looked ahead, and darted straight out into the road, into my path. They hadn't seen me, in broad daylight, but I thought they had by how they paused after looking at me. I had obviously been invisible till I shouted just before the moment of impact. I suppose, as with motorists at junctions, expect the unexpected.

BTW, she was fine. I cycled home, and then to hospital. As you do. Saves paying for parking.

 

[downfader]

Spinney is right.

Not really.

If I took a gun and shot someone who was suggested to have been "stupid" for entering a high crime area - would that be evolution too. No it would not. Actions formed from intellect lead to the outcome not evolution.

May I also ask if yourself or Spinney have any formal qualification in biology?

 

[Spinney]

Not really.

If I took a gun and shot someone who was suggested to have been "stupid" for entering a high crime area - would that be evolution too. No it would not. Actions formed from intellect lead to the outcome not evolution.

But running over someone by accident because they didn't look before crossing the road isn't quite the same thing, is it? Unless you are saying that motorists deliberately run over people who step out without looking?

May I also ask if yourself or Spinney have any formal qualification in biology?

One of my degrees involved some graduate level biology courses, yes. Plus quite a lot of reading of popular science books on evolution (among other things).

 

[Markymark]

Not really.

If I took a gun and shot someone who was suggested to have been "stupid" for entering a high crime area - would that be evolution too. No it would not. Actions formed from intellect lead to the outcome not evolution.

May I also ask if yourself or Spinney have any formal qualification in biology?

This is true. Stupidity is not hereditary therefor not affected by evolution. Wiping out lots of stupid people will not create smarter people in the future.

 

[Cuchilo]

I saw a young lad today ( maybe about 11 years old ) bouncing a football along the pavement . The ball got away from him and into the road and he just ran after it without looking .
Its a fast main road for a 30mph but the car in front of me saw what was happening and so did I so we both slowed and then stopped . He was totally unaware of the traffic and got back onto the pavement and then gestured to everyone behind him that everything was ok . There was no one behind him Not once did he look at the road .

 

[Spinney]

This is true. Stupidity is not hereditary therefor not affected by evolution. Wiping out lots of stupid people will not create smarter people in the future.

Some aspects of stupidity are inheritable.

But this is all getting very serious for a throwaway comment about 'evolution in action'!

 

[downfader]

But running over someone by accident because they didn't look before crossing the road isn't quite the same thing, is it? Unless you are saying that motorists deliberately run over people who step out without looking?


One of my degrees involved some graduate level biology courses, yes. Plus quite a lot of reading of popular science books on evolution (among other things).

No I'm not saying the motorists actions were deliberate in that scenario (perhaps I worded poorly there). I'm saying that the pedestrians actions through choice would lead to a downfall, not genetics or intellect etc.

My background was microbiology. Albeit for a very short time at a Btec higher level.

 

[ufkacbln]

Seems that the evolutionary benefit would be removing the people who don't understand that the pedestrian is the one with the moral high ground, and they are the ones in the wrong

Or perhaps it really is evolutionary, and we are looking at "I am bigger and more lethal in my car / on my bike and therefore I am going to use this advantage to maim or kill you because you are in my way."......Survival of the fittest