Should cyclists be required to attend a road-craft course before being allowed on the roads?

[shouldbeinbed]

Everyone learning to ride at school is a nice idea but practicalities may well get in the way. Not every child has a bike, those that do may not have it in roadworthy order (how long do you keep the good bike kids hanging around fixing cruddy brakes, replacing bald tyres?) others may not want/be allowed to bring their own property to school for compulsory PE lessons.

Schools would have to hire bikes and trainers at commercial rates or buy a stock with storage, insurance, maintenance, depreciation etc and training up a few teachers to bikeability standard to factor in. Either way costly vs a bag of footballs or a few rounders bats for a relatively small window of opportunity each year. Also in comparison to other paid for activities like swimming or the usual in school PE activities; bike training for a class of 30 would be very staff heavy (aka costly) to be genuinely productive for a wide range of abilities or to go out on the roads in loco parentis.
Even in rural Cambridgeshire 30+ years ago my cycling proficiency was done as half a dozen at most per adult & my wife's recent Bikeright course was a 6:2 ratio.

There's stories out there of bike bans for kids not complying with helmet and high viz compulsion and parents taking issue with it. Without opening those cans of worms, it'd be a given that the full stereotype safe cyclist garb would be mandated by LA & School policies even if it was a couple of adults & no roads, what sort of incentive and message does it send out that you need the full *kit* to ride around the school car park?
Also, not the schools responsibility technically but if you've asked a kid to bring their bike to school and they're hurt or killed on the commute, outside of the guilt feelings & human cost in school, the bureaucracy and bad press will sink you.

All surmountable or 'so what' problems with a cyclists eye but less so for a budget stretched, regulated to b***ery non cyclist head teacher, or a governing body with views from ours to Emma Way & Keith Peat on cycling and its usefulness and whether it is a school responsibility or one for parents.

I'm also sure chess and lacrosse and basketball and fell running and etc etc etc forums could make viable arguments for their particular interests to be essential additions to the PE calendar too.

 

[subaqua]

The more I think about it the more I agree that schools are really the best starting point.
As you said @Night Train, cycle-craft and road safety have to be better skills to learn than football!

which other bits of mandatory education in the national curriculum do you want to remove to accomodate teaching of cycling skills ?

 

[Brandane]

whether it is a school responsibility or one for parents.

And that is the bottom line. Something as straight forward as safe cycling should really be the parents responsibility. I had responsible parents, and I could ride a bike long before I went to school (one of my first memories is losing the stabilisers). Riding on the road came soon afterwards; albeit that I was fortunate enough to live on a quiet island (Bute) with 1960's traffic levels.

 

[theclaud]

Hopefully not duplicating any previous polls on this, so here goes...

Really taking notice this spring/summer on the road-craft of the fair-weather or new(?) cyclists on the roads these days, especially given the increased number of new cyclists probably driven to cycling due to the economic climate.

This is noticed both on the commute, out on a "ride" and when driving, and being what you could call a "seasoned" rider, you can't miss just how unstable and unable some riders appear to be.
So many now seem to randomly bounce between the road and pedestrian pathways, ignore or are ignorant of the rules of te road, and seriously put themselves, peds and other cyclists at risk on shared routes as well as on the roads.

Should some type of road-craft be compulsory? - I say yes...

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just no. It never ceases to disappoint me - the extent to which experienced cyclists (who might reasonably be expected to encourage newbies, give friendly help or advice to inexperienced riders, or take simple pleasure in seeing all kinds of people out and about on all kinds of bikes) will seek instead to create further barriers to cycling for others. Perhaps, instead, po-faced racing commuters as well as motorists of all kinds should be made to go everywhere by bmx for a week, so that they might gain some insight into the joys to be had from following desire lines and transgressing the hierarchy of our pedestrian- and cyclist-hostile traffic environment. Focus on your own "roadcraft", which should include looking out for people who are bimbling about untroubled by such things. We need roadcraft inasmuch as we choose to ride in a certain way, which has more to do with speed than anything else. A fast club ride needs to be very disciplined for obvious reasons, and if you're racing traffic into work you owe it to pedestrians, slower riders and yourself to have your wits about you. Riding predictably in traffic is smart, but then so is expecting unpredictable riding from others. In my experience, the most objectionable riders are not those who are unstable, unskilled, or unwary but those who use their superior speed and control to intimidate the unstable, unskilled and unwary. Just give them a bit more room, and tell them off gently if they're being especially dozy.

 

[sidevalve]

It may well be a god idea.
! - will it dissuade people from cycling, no it may have the opposite effect as parents may be more willing to let 'little Johnny' out on his bike if he has some training and many more 'unsure' possible riders would be encouraged to give it a go.
2 - will it be difficult to police, not really the only time such a thing would be called into question is if a cyclist is involved in or [and yes sorry but sometimes is does happen] causes an accident.. Either way if the case goes to court being able to say yes I have passed a "test" and do understand the highway code can only strengthen the cyclists position.
3 - it WILL improve the driving standards of all drivers. Many car drivers have no idea of either the problems faced by 2 wheel users [cycle OR m/cycle] and often have even less idea of the effect of such things as road conditions on their own vehicles. A [no matter how short] cycle ride might convince them that rain, snow ,and ice etc actually have an effect on your vehicle [no matter what the ABS etc can do about it].
4 - saying cyclists don't cause accidents but car drivers do so lets test the cyclist ha ha, is plainly ridiculous.
Believe it or not there is a vast collection of laws out there regarding car drivers. They MUST pass a test. Their vehicles MUST be roadworthy. They MUST be insured. They MUST carry a registration plate to identify both their vehicle and themselves to the police. If caught breaking ANY of the laws a driver will be punished and can be traced easily even if he has 'done a runner' [the same oddly can not be said for a cyclist].
I assume of course we are talking about ordinary people who either make mistakes or simply don't understand a cyclists needs.
If you choose to include criminals, car thieves etc then obviously they don't care about anyone or anything so are pretty irrelevant here.
This is not 'singling out' cyclists just giving a chance to act like responsible members of society from an early age.
5 - parent teaching children ! Many parents can't be bothered to tech their children to count [a problem for some of the parents too in many cases] so that aint going to happen, nice when it does but -
6 - the example of the cyclist in the middle of the road [the primary position I assume you mean] being accosted by the "ape" simply would not occur as the "ape" would know what the rider was doing [even if he didn't like it].
Finally my argument still is this , we are living in an increasingly regulated society and just banging on about freedom is a waste of time. Cyclists are vastly outnumbered and "the others" want their little slice of freedom too..
At the moment we are living a charmed life with almost no rules and no regulations. Is a couple of hours or so spent in a training course such a price to pay to state clearly that yes cyclists are responsible members of society and yes we do know how to use the roads.

 

[theclaud]

Finally my argument still is this , we are living in an increasingly regulated society and just banging on about freedom is a waste of time. Cyclists are vastly outnumbered and "the others" want their little slice of freedom too..
At the moment we are living a charmed life with almost no rules and no regulations. Is a couple of hours or so spent in a training course such a price to pay to state clearly that yes cyclists are responsible members of society and yes we do know how to use the roads.

You are Linford AICMFP.

 

[summerdays]

Riding predictably in traffic is smart, but then so is expecting unpredictable riding from others. In my experience, the most objectionable riders are not those who are unstable, unskilled, or unwary but those who use their superior speed and control to intimidate the unstable, unskilled and unwary. Just give them a bit more room, and tell them off gently if they're being especially dozy.

This is one of the things I like about cycling around here - there is the tut tut shake of the head when people do silly things on the bike but often that is it, or a remark such as look at that person riding the opposite way to the traffic etc. But I think it is tolerated and I think that it is good for cycling in general. That motorists are aware that cyclists may do something unexpected and so are looking out for them. That isn't to say I want everyone to ride in that way, just that there is all sorts of riding going on, by different groups of cyclists and that we can ride together in our different styles.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The impression formed in my mind of the OP is as another cyclist who thinks like a driver. Sigh.

Should we give children compulsory ju-jitsu training at school because some of them might encounter violent people in later life. No. How about we police the offending behaviour rather than asking the victims to change theirs?

So how about mandatory retesting, to IAM standards, for all car drivers every three years? How about curfews on drivers under say, 25. How about males under 25 not being allowed to carry their girlfriends in their cars? (Biggest killer of young women in UK is their boyfriends driving, I'm told)

 

[snorri]

Is a couple of hours or so spent in a training course such a price to pay to state clearly that yes cyclists are responsible members of society and yes we do know how to use the roads.

There can be no doubt, many irresponsible people who have undergone a few hours training and passed a basic test have been transformed into paragons of virtue when seated behind a motor vehicle steering wheel.

 

[Hip Priest]

There would undoubtedly be some benefits to compulsory cycle training, but I'm afraid the negatives would far outweigh them. You'd see a massive drop in the number of cyclists for a start. And the fewer cyclists there are, the more dangerous the roads.

I'd be in favour of an ad campaign aimed at new cyclists. "Cav says 'Don't ride up the inside of lorries'" or "Wiggo thinks you're a nobber if you jump red lights" or "Froome says 'Go and get me some gels from the car'". Ok, maybe not the last one.

 

[fabregas485]

This is a mixed one. I hate the idea of having to do a course to cycle, but it would do some riders I see a lot of good.

 

[GrasB]

The arguments against citing that it would turn people off cycling goes against the argument, so statistically how many potential drivers were put off altogether because they were scared off by learning the dangers of the roads and traffic when earning to drive?

Considering the holding of a driving licence is considered a necessity in modern society a surprisingly large number of people. In the village I live in there are at least 4 people who are over 20 & don't hold a driving licence. I don't exactly live out in the sticks but the village is most definitely a rural village. The number of under-30 UK citizens at work who don't hold a driving licence is very high. Most of them would like to hold a licence but don't want the hassle of passing their test.

 

[Hip Priest]

Bad cyclists are annoying. Bad drivers can kill. That's why it is imperative that drivers are licensed. Just because you need a licence to own a gun, doesn't mean you should need one to own a water pistol.

 

[DWiggy]

I think a there should be a part of the uk driving test that involves cycling, just to see the road from a cyclist perspective and hopefully give them a more comprehensive understanding on why a cyclist is holding a certain position and dangers they/we need to avoid, its amazes me how many drivers do not understand simple things like the need to avoid potholes and why we cant always ride in the gutter!

 

[MontyVeda]

my cycling proficiency test never did me any harm... and although the course itself is a distant and vague memory, i'm sure it's done me a heck of a lot of good by providing the foundation on which my own road-craft developed... would i have done cycling proficiency aged 7 or 8 if it was compulsory? Probably. Do i think it should be compulsory? Probably not.

The driving test does not make a good driver... it merely teaches one how to operate the machine that is a car, and gives them basic road sense that may or may not be 'good' road sense (especially when it comes to sharing the road with cyclists)... there's plenty of cycle cam clips where driving instructors are proving themselves to be complete ignorant nobbers... and these are the people training future drivers!

There once was a poster in these parts who cycled around Glasgow with his helmet cam, squealing and shouting at cars he felt were too close and blah blah blah... no names needed but many probably know who i magna-mean... personally i felt he was far too much of a drama queen who assumed that everybody who hadn't read cycle-craft was ignorant and in need of educating... yes he had the best of intentions, but he'd be the last person I'd want to see teaching people cycle road sense... but would be just the type who'd volunteer.