Show us your Raleigh?!?

[Dan B]

If that's a 501 sticker on the downtube, then it looks a lot like my old Raleigh Criterium: -
View attachment 399487

If it is then you are looking at around 1985 build date

It is and it does, and Criterium is my working hypothesis. Where is the frame number on yours? Mine is either hidden or it's only five digits long - https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/1980s-raleigh-frame-numbers.177328/

 

[mcshroom]

It is and it does, and Criterium is my working hypothesis. Where is the frame number on yours? Mine is either hidden or it's only five digits long - https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/1980s-raleigh-frame-numbers.177328/

Sorry, the frame for that bike is broken and in the loft so I've only just had a chance to look. My number is stamped down the back of the seat tube, starting just below where the seat post fits. It's a mixture of letters and numbers.

 

[tyred]

My "new" Raleigh out on a test ride. This was vandalised and left chained up outside my local library all winter so I asked if I could remove it for them. Nothing special on paper but it rides fantastic and will soon be re-homed to a friend although I am starting to think of excuses why I should keep it myself...

It has reminded me that I have a gent's Raleigh Pioneer frame I bought of Ebay a few years ago for 99p lying in the garage at home. I feel it's time it was built up, although it is different - being 501 and lugged.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

My "new" Raleigh out on a test ride. This was vandalised and left chained up outside my local library all winter so I asked if I could remove it for them. Nothing special on paper but it rides fantastic and will soon be re-homed to a friend although I am starting to think of excuses why I should keep it myself...

It has reminded me that I have a gent's Raleigh Pioneer frame I bought of Ebay a few years ago for 99p lying in the garage at home. I feel it's time it was built up, although it is different - being 501 and lugged.

Looks like a decent machine if you don't object to riding a Ladies frame. I'd say a Pioneer Jaguar, from the fact it's cro-moly.

I own a '95 Pioneer Trail 18 with a lugged 501 frame, and that was the last year in which Raleigh built brazed & lugged frames at Nottingham. The 4130 cro-moly material of your Ladies Pioneer is a close relation of Reynolds 501, but formulated to be weldable when used in lugless construction, so yours is 1996 vintage or younger. I'd quite like to build up a 501 Pioneer frame into an old-school lightweight clubman's weekend type bike with a SA 3-speed on the back rather than derailleurs. I've got a spare frame I could use, but it's only 18-23 Hi-Tensile though, not 501. I'll definitely do it if a 23" 501 frame turns up cheap.

 

[raleighnut]

My Equipe begins it's change into 'light' overnight/weekend tourer,

Next jobs are fit the slightly used Ultegra triple I've got in the shed and swap the 105 rear derailleur for the GS version that's on the 'Road Ace' (The bike that once had the triple crank fitted) Then the 'suicide' levers have to go (my tent straps to the handlebars so they're in the way) I may go for new levers though instead of just removing the extensions but then I'd have to re-tape the handlebars.

 

[tyred]

Looks like a decent machine if you don't object to riding a Ladies frame. I'd say a Pioneer Jaguar, from the fact it's cro-moly.

I own a '95 Pioneer Trail 18 with a lugged 501 frame, and that was the last year in which Raleigh built brazed & lugged frames at Nottingham. The 4130 cro-moly material of your Ladies Pioneer is a close relation of Reynolds 501, but formulated to be weldable when used in lugless construction, so yours is 1996 vintage or younger. I'd quite like to build up a 501 Pioneer frame into an old-school lightweight clubman's weekend type bike with a SA 3-speed on the back rather than derailleurs. I've got a spare frame I could use, but it's only 18-23 Hi-Tensile though, not 501. I'll definitely do it if a 23" 501 frame turns up cheap.

It is a Pioneer Jaguar and I would be happy to ride this although I'd have to change the bars as those are horrible - too wide, too straight and with the rise in them, I can't trim them down to a more sensible width like I did on my MTB.

It's definitely a fine a great bike to ride by any standards, the only slightly irritating thing about it is the vertical dropouts as it means a Sturmey conversion can't be done on it, or at least not easily.

My lugged 501 Pioneer does have horizontal dropouts so will likely receive a Sturmey when I build it up.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

It is a Pioneer Jaguar and I would be happy to ride this although I'd have to change the bars as those are horrible - too wide, too straight and with the rise in them, I can't trim them down to a more sensible width like I did on my MTB.
My lugged 501 Pioneer does have horizontal dropouts so will likely receive a Sturmey when I build it up.

The bars on your Ladies Pioneer look the same type as fitted to my Raleigh Gemini, which I agree are overly wide at 24 1/2"! My Pioneer Trail has MTB-style bars which are 22 1/2" wide, and to me, are about the optimum width for a rider my size. I wouldn't want to cut any of my bars down as much as you have done on your old Townsend, but some measuring suggests that my Gemini bars would accept a 3/4" trim off either side, taking them down to 23". If you think any of these old hybrid bars are wide, you should see the silly 30"+ ones being supplied on some modern suspension MTB's. I'd have a job to get those through my front door!

When you build up your 501 Pioneer frame, do you intend to leave it flat bar or convert to drops? I'm thinking drop bars on a light 501 frame with comfortable geometry and a low-maintenance SA 3-speed hub with a gradient-friendly 20T rear cog should result in a very nice, hassle-free bike for relaxed leisure rides.

 

[tyred]

The bars on your Ladies Pioneer look the same type as fitted to my Raleigh Gemini, which I agree are overly wide at 24 1/2"! My Pioneer Trail has MTB-style bars which are 22 1/2" wide, and to me, are about the optimum width for a rider my size. I wouldn't want to cut any of my bars down as much as you have done on your old Townsend, but some measuring suggests that my Gemini bars would accept a 3/4" trim off either side, taking them down to 23". If you think any of these old hybrid bars are wide, you should see the silly 30"+ ones being supplied on some modern suspension MTB's. I'd have a job to get those through my front door!

When you build up your 501 Pioneer frame, do you intend to leave it flat bar or convert to drops? I'm thinking drop bars on a light 501 frame with comfortable geometry and a low-maintenance SA 3-speed hub with a gradient-friendly 20T rear cog should result in a very nice, hassle-free bike for relaxed leisure rides.

I've just measured the bars and they are indeed an absurd 24 2/2" which just feels far too wide for me.

For the Townsend, I didn't measure but just stood over the bike and marked what felt right and then employed the hacksaw. I did no measurements at the time beyond ensuring I cut both sides equally. I've just measured them them now and it is 20 1/4" which feels perfect to me. I'm used with narrower drops on old road bikes and I find it more comfortable like that.

I think I'll keep the flat bars and bar ends on my 501, or possibly a set of alloy North Road bars. I love vintage roadsters and I've often felt like building a lighter, faster one to my own spec so this is quite a good base I think. I also have a spare Kalkhoff frame I had considered using for this purpose.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I think I'll keep the flat bars and bar ends on my 501, or possibly a set of alloy North Road bars. I love vintage roadsters and I've often felt like building a lighter, faster one to my own spec so this is quite a good base I think.

I too like the upright riding position and low-hassle mechanicals that you get with 3-speeds. Mine is a Puch Elegance, bought new around 1985. It was a toss-up between that or a Raleigh light roadster equivalent, the Puch only won because a local-ish bike shop had them on sale. Good solid dependable bike but with a plain steel frame, steel wheels, mudguards & cranks, and a rear rack - a lightweight it isn't. Having ridden Reynolds framed alloy-wheel 18-speed hybrids that must be 6 or 7 pounds lighter than the Puch, the idea of a lightweight hub-gear bike with no derailleur mechs to get bent and vastly longer chain life has a lot of appeal to me.

 

[raleighnut]

I too like the upright riding position and low-hassle mechanicals that you get with 3-speeds. Mine is a Puch Elegance, bought new around 1985. It was a toss-up between that or a Raleigh light roadster equivalent, the Puch only won because a local-ish bike shop had them on sale. Good solid dependable bike but with a plain steel frame, steel wheels, mudguards & cranks, and a rear rack - a lightweight it isn't. Having ridden Reynolds framed alloy-wheel 18-speed hybrids that must be 6 or 7 pounds lighter than the Puch, the idea of a lightweight hub-gear bike with no derailleur mechs to get bent and vastly longer chain life has a lot of appeal to me.

Raleigh city with the 26" steel rims binned and 700c aluminium ones laced on, also crank swapped for an ally one. likewise handlebars and brake calipers.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Raleigh city with the 26" steel rims binned and 700c aluminium ones laced on, also crank swapped for an ally one. likewise handlebars and brake calipers.

That's nice, I like the overall effect. I'd have to fit some lightweight mudguards though. How did you get around the issue of the braking when swapping rim sizes? It's compatibility issues with things like brakes that make me think a quality 700c hybrid frame is a better starting point than a 26" roadster, since most 700c wheels are alloy plus you get a good choice of tyres - including puncture-resistant ones which are high up the list when I think about what I want from a bike..

 

[raleighnut]

That's nice, I like the overall effect. I'd have to fit some lightweight mudguards though. How did you get around the issue of the braking when swapping rim sizes? It's compatibility issues with things like brakes that make me think a quality 700c hybrid frame is a better starting point than a 26" roadster, since most 700c wheels are alloy plus you get a good choice of tyres - including puncture-resistant ones which are high up the list when I think about what I want from a bike..

The original brakes were bent forged Steel ones and very long drop to cope with the mudguards and the 26 x 1 3/8th" tyres so more decorative then functional (and they weren't very attractive either) The ones fitted now are Aluminium Weinmann, a 500 on the front and an 'Alpha' on the back, I've been toying with the idea of mudguards on it but if I'm riding in the rain I wear wet weather gear. The other thing with that bike is it is now a tad 'over-geared' due to the bigger wheels and a 48 tooth crank (up from 46) so is restricted more to the ridge I live on top of, if I go into town I can't get back up the hill so I just use it for nipping to the (local) shops however I may fit a 24tooth rear sprocket (I'd acquired the bike prior to breaking my femur and the plan/purchases had already been made) to replace the 22 on there at the moment.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

My clear favourite bike out of my little "fleet", all steel and mostly from the 80's & 90's:- a 1995 Pioneer Trail 18 with a lugged & brazed 23 1/2" Reynolds 501 frame (most Pioneer models were 18-23 Hi-tensile). Bought untested out of a junkpile of old bikes a charity had had donated to them. Has needed a bit of attention to the wheels, brakes & gears but all sorted and it rides really nice. Did about 5 miles this morning after repair & adjustments and it rode so well I went out again this evening when the sun wasn't so strong and did another 12 miles for good measure.

I'm now thinking of upgrading my pub bike from an old skip rescue MTB to a 6-speed beater Pioneer, using a ladies one as a mechanical donor and swapping the parts on to an early 18-23 steel mens frame that came with it.

 

[raleighnut]

My clear favourite bike out of my little "fleet", all steel and mostly from the 80's & 90's:- a 1995 Pioneer Trail 18 with a lugged & brazed 23 1/2" Reynolds 501 frame (most Pioneer models were 18-23 Hi-tensile). Bought untested out of a junkpile of old bikes a charity had had donated to them. Has needed a bit of attention to the wheels, brakes & gears but all sorted and it rides really nice. Did about 5 miles this morning after repair & adjustments and it rode so well I went out again this evening when the sun wasn't so strong and did another 12 miles for good measure. View attachment 407934 View attachment 407935

I'm now thinking of upgrading my pub bike from an old skip rescue MTB to a 6-speed beater Pioneer, using a ladies one as a mechanical donor and swapping the parts on to an early 18-23 steel mens frame that came with it.

I'll bet you can't tell the difference between a 'high tensile' frame and a CrMo one when riding em. 3 of mine are 'basic' high tensile frames and they ride lovely, the 531c framed 'Road Ace' is just lighter.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I'll bet you can't tell the difference between a 'high tensile' frame and a CrMo one when riding em. 3 of mine are 'basic' high tensile frames and they ride lovely, the 531c framed 'Road Ace' is just lighter.

I think frame geometry and the choice of other parts fitted plays by far the biggest part in how a bike feels when ridden. When I get around to cobbling together a hack Pioneer that I'm willing to risk leaving in dodgy locations, it will make an interesting comparison to my Trail 18. The donor ladies one has steel rims though, so combined with the 18-23 gents frame I expect it to be noticeably heavier. The frame size and geometry (73 deg parallel on the Pioneer) will be identical though.
I do think material plays some part in "feel" , aside from weight. My other old Raleigh hybrid is a Gemini 18, which is 531 (ST?), and that does ride slightly differently to my Pioneer, and is noticeably lighter than the 501 frame. However, it's also 22 1/2" rather than 23 1/2", so some of the perceived difference *could* be down to the smaller frame, possibly the wheelbase is slightly shorter, and the Top Tube is definitely a little shorter as I've measured both. The Gemini geometry is merely quoted as "touring", which, looking at the catalogue, may mean 72 degree. They don't state the actual numbers. Most bike comparisons have an element of comparing apples with pears, or at least different varieties of apples, since two different bikes are rarely absolutely identical in all but frame material.