Skinny or fat tyres?

[Alan O]

No, I'm not going to ask the same old question again, just a recent experience...

I've always ridden steel touring bikes, with 27 x 1 1/4 wheels - tyres generally between 28mm and 32mm. It's the perfect all-round bike style for me.

And since I took up cycling again a couple of years ago I've been mostly riding a Raleigh Royal tourer with 531ST frame, using 32mm Marathon Greenguards or 32mm Gatorskins. Great stuff.

I've also been rebuilding my old Orbit bike, with 531c frame, which was set up as my tourer since the 80s. And with its lighter and less rigid frame, I decided to try skinnier wheels and 25mm tyres - so a couple of weeks ago I got a pair of slimmer 700c wheels (budget parts, but they seem decent enough to me) and fitted 25c GP 4000 IIs.

The first thing that struck me was the wheel/tyre combo is quite a lot lighter than my 27" wheels with the fatter tyres.

I've only been out for a couple of very short rides, but the bike feels so much different to my Raleigh tourer. I can accelerate faster, and the whole thing seems more responsive. With tyre pressures of 100psi rear and 90 front for starters, it's still pretty smooth on reasonable roads - and I'd be happy with it on hard cycle paths too, but probably not gravel and definitely not anything at all muddy or seriously bumpy.

The other thing I learned today is that those speed cameras that display your speed are able to detect cyclists too OK, it was only 21 in a 20mph zone, but that's an impressive speed for me.

It's not the bike I'd choose for riding 100 miles, but it's a lot of fun!

So skinny or fat tyres? You have to have both

 

[gbb]

The 700/25 combo will almost certainly be noticeably lighter because of a probable lower spoke count you get on modern wheels, probable lighter hubs and almost certainly the GP4000s are really quite light.
I use GP4000s...they are really quite good and you may find the same as I did one ride. I temporarily had a cheap Scwalbe tyre on the front and on one ride as I banked into a bend at speed, I began to lose grip, probably because the tyre construction just isnt as good as the GP...probably the same for your 27xs

 

[Winnershsaint]

I have my Conti 4000 2s at 90 psi front and rear. More than enough in them!

 

[raleighnut]

28mm max for me unless I'm on a Mountain Bike although 25s are fitted to a couple of mine now instead of 23s.

 

[Slick]

Nothing really to add re tyres, but the speed camera thing has been a long held hobby of mine.

 

[Alan O]

The 700/25 combo will almost certainly be noticeably lighter because of a probable lower spoke count you get on modern wheels, probable lighter hubs and almost certainly the GP4000s are really quite light.
I use GP4000s...they are really quite good and you may find the same as I did one ride. I temporarily had a cheap Scwalbe tyre on the front and on one ride as I banked into a bend at speed, I began to lose grip, probably because the tyre construction just isnt as good as the GP...probably the same for your 27xs

The new wheels actually have the same spoke count at 36, as it's an older-style freewheel set which is all that will fit in my frame. The hubs could well be lighter, but I think the biggest weight difference is in the rims. The new ones have an external width of 19mm (they're labeled 622x14) and won't really take tyres wider than 25, while the old ones are 25mm wide (no label) and are very chunky.

And yes, the GP4000s are a lot lighter than my 27" Marathons or Gatorskins. The fact that the GP4000s are folding tyres and the others have steel beads probably contributes a bit to that.

It's very early days yet, but the GP4000s do feel very good on the road so far. I noticed that when I was pumping them up, they felt very flexible until I got them pumped hard. The sidewalls are significantly thinner and more flexible than the other tyres too, which I guess improves the ride.

 

[mikeymustard]

There are several fans of 27x1 1/4 tyres that live on the classic & vintage thread, I include myself in that.
Modern wheel/tyre combos are like you say, lighter, faster accelerating and, in 25mm, reasonably comfy if the frame allows; but theres something rather appealing about the armchair plushness of 27" box section rims and proper inch and a quarter tyres. And they may take a while to spin up but they seem to roll along nicely once they're up to [ahem] "speed'

 

[biggs682]

@Alan O give me 27 x 1 1/4" set up any day for smooth cruising and i have at least 3 bikes with this set up

All my bike's with 70 x 23's on are a lot more twitchy / nervous on the road but still enjoyable

 

[ADarkDraconis]

I love big chunky tires, I can't help it! I'm a dirt trail kinda girl... I also am a bit on the curvier side, so I always worry about the sturdiness of skinny tires when the rider is not. I have 700c × 35s on my current bike and it took me a while to get over how skinny they are, haha!

Also unfortunately the only speed reader around here is set up to remind people to slow down for construction- at the top of a veeeeeery steep hill (the steepest on my homeward commute!) so needless to say I am puffing up to the top at probably 8mph, well under the radar! I go down that hill on the way to work though, so if they ever start roadwork on the bottom of the hill they'd better watch out!

 

[gilespargiter]

Seems that as a number of people mention above, I also tend to prefer riding usually 32mm's, aka 27x1&1/4". . . but sometimes 28's. With the 32's I not infrequently take my Carlton (clubman/tourer) to offroad places that many MTB'ers hesitate to go. I do of course have to be much more careful of what I'am doing than when on the mtb.
Couple of points about what you are finding though; of course your 531c bike will be a fair bit lighter overall than yousr st bike. Also the Raleigh Royal IIRC will have much more relaxed geometry and therefore be less lively AND it has Marathons - so that is quite a quantom leap really, I would have thought.

As a matter of interest, perhaps, the original 27" Weinman pattern aluminium rims for my Carlton are actually quite a bit lighter (although also more delicate) than the double wall 700's I use most of the time.

 

[Tangoup51]

Each to their own.
Whether that depends on your bike preferences, riding preferences or even the quality of the roads around you.

For me, that biases a preference to wider tires. I keep finding myself smashing into terrible roads and dreading what that experience would of been like if I had my smaller tires equipped..
Though, I found the best performing tire size (in terms of speed, rolling resistance) was 32c, but of very good quality so it was exceptionally light and well made. It was faster because the bigger air volume helped me ignore certain road / path imperfections that would otherwise shake my speed off piece by piece.

The same roads and paths could also be handled properly with a 28c tire, but anything less than destroyed my average speed.

I also found that any size bigger than a 32c tire (no matter the price or quality) seems to negate performance, but this is mostly due a lack of manufacturing of performance orientated tires that come available in wider sizes, the best you will find are some good quality commuting tires, not necessarily super lightweight racing tires like you can find with 25-28c sizes.

As of now, I run 42c tires on my CX bike for my daily spin. That sounds like extremely excessive width but I made sure I bought the correct 42c tires that will have good rolling resistance, low weight & good grip. The lack of worrying about potholes, road imperfections allow me to corner more confidently. As well as enjoy my ride considerably more, more-so on new unexplored routes where I do not know what I will encounter, case in point on my last ride when I explored a new route and failed to spot an exceptionally big pothole. The impact shook me silly, but my bike survived. God knows what kind of trouble I would of had if I struck it with my 25-28c tires.

The performance that is negated by that size is marginal and I can live with it, in some areas I am considerably faster with a 42c tire than I would be with a 25-28c, just on account of the road surface etc.

Weirdly, I don't even live in a particularly bad area for potholes and poor roads but I am reaping the benefits of wider tires on every ride.

 

[gilespargiter]

Here are a couple of links you may find interesting then Tangroup51 ; https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/

and; https://www.compasscycle.com/product-category/components/tires/ You need the dollars though . . .

 

[Alan O]

Interesting thoughts folks. I'm with what seems to be the majority in that I still think the classic 27 x 1 1/4 wheels with fatter tyres are the best all-round choice, and my tourer that is so equipped is still going to be getting most of my miles. But I'm going to be working out some shorter road-only routes to add to the mix, just for the fun of the 700/25 bike - and I can't help feeling that some shorter and higher intensity rides on it will help improve my fitness.

 

[raleighnut]

Years ago I had 27 x 7/8ths" on my Carlton, the rear has long succumbed to wear but it still has one on the front.

 

[Milkfloat]

Maybe I am reading it wrong but the OP seems to think that it is tyre size affecting speed, acceleration and responsiveness. I would suggest that it is more likely the tyre type. GP4000 II are a performance race tyre, marathon greenguards are built for tanks.