Slightly disappointed

[glenn forger]

 

[glenn forger]

You come barely any distance from the elbow of the outside cyclist!

What's the difference?

 

[Mugshot]

I think we all agree the motorist was at fault...end of

The two abreast issue is simply a matter of consideration and timing. Two abreast on a bend on a road with a 60 mph limit ....cant condone it....sure, taking the primary on the approach to the bend ( as mentioned by mugshot ) is something I do all of the time (today even - fast country road ) but effectively blocking the lane completely..nah ..... thats a recipe for disaster. If its not within the drivers limit point on approach then anything could happen and the motorist wouldnt reasonably be expected to be at fault.



I doubt that scenario adequately reflects that of the OP......

Evidently, the motorist in the OP was overtaking on a corner.
I honestly get where you're coming from, the image of two abreast cycling can very easily conjure up the impression that the road is being blocked, that the cyclists are inconsiderate, that they are deliberately holding up the flow of traffic. However it is in the majority of cases quite simply wrong, as a vulnerable road user you should be overtaken with as much room as it is possible to give, I know that doesn't necessarily happen but it should. In riding two abreast you should still expect to be given as much room as possible, for the motorist the overtake would and should be identical, they move over as far as they are safely able to and overtake when the road is clear, there does not need to be any difference in the manoeuvre.
There is no reason to kowtow and tug the forelock because some motorist, and unfortunately some cyclists, cannot see that lone riding or two abreast riding frequently makes no difference at all.

 

[Feastie]

It's unlikely they'll be taking up more room than a tractor or a road sweeper, and quite possibly traveling more quickly, I wonder if the driver would have overtaken something like that on a blind bend.

Driver shouldn't have been overtaking anyone on a blind bend, this has been agreed by literally every single person here.
But it's true more a lot more idiotic decisions are made around cyclists than tractors. Having said that, I've seen many a horrific overtake with farm traffic!

What's the difference?

In your diagram clearly none, but the width of the roads and the position of the cyclists in your picture has them all bunched over and the road nice and wide. A situation which I have to say I rarely see replicated on quite narrow country lanes. It is also true that the cyclists are much closer to the car in the second picture, doesn't take too much imagination to see that a narrower lane and a more primarily positioned cyclist can actually preclude somebody from giving them much space. I could re-draw the scenario myself, if it helped, but I don't have an imaging programme on my laptop.

 

[Mugshot]

Driver shouldn't have been overtaking anyone on a blind bend, this has been agreed by literally every single person here.
But it's true more a lot more idiotic decisions are made around cyclists than tractors. Having said that, I've seen many a horrific overtake with farm traffic!



In your diagram clearly none, but the width of the roads and the position of the cyclists in your picture has them all bunched over and the road nice and wide. A situation which I have to say I rarely see replicated on quite narrow country lanes. It is also true that the cyclists are much closer to the car in the second picture, doesn't take too much imagination to see that a narrower lane and a more primarily positioned cyclist can actually preclude somebody from giving them much space. I could re-draw the scenario myself, if it helped, but I don't have an imaging programme on my laptop.

If it's two lanes they move into the other lane. If it's less then the cyclist/s need to try to control the overtake until they are comfortable that the overtake will be performed safely.

 

[Mugshot]

Which leads to the interesting questions. Is is our responsibility to manage their decisions? If so how?

In my experience horses and their riders get far more room, respect, patience than cyclists. How was that achieved?

 

[doog]

Evidently, the motorist in the OP was overtaking on a corner.
I honestly get where you're coming from, the image of two abreast cycling can very easily conjure up the impression that the road is being blocked, that the cyclists are inconsiderate, that they are deliberately holding up the flow of traffic. However it is in the majority of cases quite simply wrong, as a vulnerable road user you should be overtaken with as much room as it is possible to give, I know that doesn't necessarily happen but it should. In riding two abreast you should still expect to be given as much room as possible, for the motorist the overtake would and should be identical, they move over as far as they are safely able to and overtake when the road is clear, there does not need to be any difference in the manoeuvre.
There is no reason to kowtow and tug the forelock because some motorist, and unfortunately some cyclists, cannot see that lone riding or two abreast riding frequently makes no difference at all.

and I largely agree, however surely the issue is that the cyclists in this case ,were two abreast (for whatever reason) on a bend on a fast road.(not withstanding the dullard in the car) None of us cyclists are in a position to gauge the speed of vehicles approaching from behind in such a situation, so we need to risk assess it and ride defensively... I will take primary when I can on approach to a bend and get my sorry ass in as far as reasonable when im negotiating it.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Driving too fast for the conditions. What would you have done if the cyclists were on your side of road and car was coming other direction? Hit them ?

Bit harsh! In your scenario the cyclists wouldn't have been approaching him at approx 60 mph, so entirely possible he could have stopped. He may well have been able to stop in the scenario he was in, which doesn't help when there's a vehicle still bearing down on you unable to do so.

 

[Feastie]

If it's two lanes they move into the other lane. If it's less then the cyclist/s need to try to control the overtake until they are comfortable that the overtake will be performed safely.

Scrap that, I do have some imaging software...

I would say this more accurately mimics the scenarios I have been in when I've been driving somewhere rather than on a bike, and I've not felt comfortable to overtake them. I know how horrible it is to be passed so close, and tbh I wouldn't feel safe.
If they're taking the lane for safety reasons, 100% fair enough, but I have to say that is not always the case. Plenty of people go around cycling in pairs on perfectly safe and highly visible straight segments of road. I mean... I have encountered them!

Anyway, I'm not even really sure why I'm still posting... just wanted to demonstrate exactly what I'm on about I guess!

 

[Mugshot]

I will take primary when I can on approach to a bend and get my sorry ass in as far as reasonable when im negotiating it.

In my opinion you are inviting close overtakes in one of the worst positions to get a close overtake, if a car comes round the bend in the opposite direction the most likely thing for the overtaking driver to do is to turn straight back in to you.

 

[glenn forger]

I've not felt comfortable to overtake them.

Overtaking is a basic driving skill. Have you considered driver training?

 

[Mugshot]

Scrap that, I do have some imaging software...

I would say this more accurately mimics the scenarios I have been in when I've been driving somewhere rather than on a bike, and I've not felt comfortable to overtake them. I know how horrible it is to be passed so close, and tbh I wouldn't feel safe.
If they're taking the lane for safety reasons, 100% fair enough, but I have to say that is not always the case. Plenty of people go around cycling in pairs on perfectly safe and highly visible straight segments of road. I mean... I have encountered them!

Anyway, I'm not even really sure why I'm still posting... just wanted to demonstrate exactly what I'm on about I guess!

It's still not inconsiderate by the cyclists though, there is room to overtake so they are not restricting the flow of traffic. The driver is giving as much room as possible, and one would hope they are travelling at an appropriate speed, I can see no issues.

 

[doog]

In my opinion you are inviting close overtakes in one of the worst positions to get a close overtake, if a car comes round the bend in the opposite direction the most likely thing for the overtaking driver to do is to turn straight back in to you.

A close overtake is surely better than getting rear ended by a car with nowhere to go.

 

[doog]

What's the difference?

Ive spoken to truck drivers who prefer the scenario on the right .

 

[Drago]

Or better still, the impatient chump in the large kinetic weapon can show some patience for 5 or 20 seconds and overtake when its safe to do so. A radical course of action for many motorists, but one worth trying.