So, this might have happened... NBD - 2016 Fuji Touring workhorse
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- Start date
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Love this bike
Thanks
Me too; it's allowing me to explore new realms of utilitarianism, experience types of components I'd not yet tried and has given me something positive to focus on.
Niggles notwithstanding (which I'll hopefully get ironed out in time) I think it's a nice bike in its own right and offers a lot for the relatively small sum it cost me / would have cost new.
The current spec Touring Disc looks really nice too - encompassing better components, a lovely looking externally lugged fork and a really nice understated Khaki colour:
However, it now costs (on the face of it) around double what mine would have in 2016 while of course a new one would rule it out as being too nice for the purposes I bought this one for..
A further mindblowingly interesting update..
Stripped the wheel earlier and ended up faced with this:
The short story is that the play is definitely in the freehub assy, and I'm not sure whether this is because it's worn or just cack quality. I'd like to investigate futher but I lack to appropriate tool to remove this bearing cup and get to the guts of the freehub assy inside.
I've found a bit of info on the net, however I'm not sure if adjusting the preload on the freehub bearings (which I assume is the problem) is achieved by adjusting the position of the cup (less likely IMO) or shimming it. If it's the latter I'm unsure about shim sizes or availability..
For now it's all gone back together for the sake of having the bike working / not adding to the existing clutter in the house.
It seems I have a few choices:
- Buy a tool (maybe £10-15) to strip the hub then take it from there,
- Buy a replacement freehub (they seem to be around £20) although I'm not 100% certain of compatability
- Buy a replacement hub assy (I've seen one for about £26 +post) - could just swap the freehub to avoid having to re-lace the wheel
Of course the play could be "normal" and not associated with the shifting issue; however after over 4k miles the cassette / freehub on my Croix de Fer is absolutely rock solid with zero detectable play; leading me to suspect that summot's not right.
As always, words of wisdom most welcome!
Stripped the wheel earlier and ended up faced with this:
The short story is that the play is definitely in the freehub assy, and I'm not sure whether this is because it's worn or just cack quality. I'd like to investigate futher but I lack to appropriate tool to remove this bearing cup and get to the guts of the freehub assy inside.
I've found a bit of info on the net, however I'm not sure if adjusting the preload on the freehub bearings (which I assume is the problem) is achieved by adjusting the position of the cup (less likely IMO) or shimming it. If it's the latter I'm unsure about shim sizes or availability..
For now it's all gone back together for the sake of having the bike working / not adding to the existing clutter in the house.
It seems I have a few choices:
- Buy a tool (maybe £10-15) to strip the hub then take it from there,
- Buy a replacement freehub (they seem to be around £20) although I'm not 100% certain of compatability
- Buy a replacement hub assy (I've seen one for about £26 +post) - could just swap the freehub to avoid having to re-lace the wheel
Of course the play could be "normal" and not associated with the shifting issue; however after over 4k miles the cassette / freehub on my Croix de Fer is absolutely rock solid with zero detectable play; leading me to suspect that summot's not right.
As always, words of wisdom most welcome!
Thanks - I've already had the freehub off the hub itself with a 10mm Allen key; I'm tempted to replace the freehub just as the easiest means of sorting the problem and allowing me to fiddle with the one that came off at my leisure; however I'm not 100% sure what replacement fits.
So far the closest I've come is the WH-R501-R freewheel, which looks the same (with the exception of the included washer) but is only listed as fitting complete R501 rims with no mention of the M610 hubs I have. Both are 10 speed while the drive interface and retention method look the same, but there's nowt concrete to suggest that they're interchangeable..
On the assumption that it like any "usual" Shimano freehub . . .
The cup is a combined cup on the outside (for the wheel bearings) and "cone" the other side (for the freehub bearings) and the freehub bearings are preloaded via a washer to obtain the correct spacing. From what I gather, the method used to adjust this is to beg old freehubs/washers from your local LBS then try for fit (I understand that due to tolerances, some washers are better suited to some hubs) - if anyone knows better, please say so. There are 50 (2x 25 top & bottom) ⅛" bearings in it so take it apart over a dish or something. There are two pawls spaced at ⅓ and ⅔ around the body (when I first opened mine, I thought I was missing one of three). I took mine apart due to a failure to engage - it was bunged up with grease. I put mine back together intending to use SFG only but it proved too difficult holding the bearings in place so I used a little silicone grease to hold them in place and then tried filling the unit as much as possible with SFG. I'm pretty sure the grease gumming the pawls up had migrated from the drive side wheel bearings and so I only use SFG on those too now, and "top them up" twice a year.
I bought this tool from ebay and it worked fine
The cup is a combined cup on the outside (for the wheel bearings) and "cone" the other side (for the freehub bearings) and the freehub bearings are preloaded via a washer to obtain the correct spacing. From what I gather, the method used to adjust this is to beg old freehubs/washers from your local LBS then try for fit (I understand that due to tolerances, some washers are better suited to some hubs) - if anyone knows better, please say so. There are 50 (2x 25 top & bottom) ⅛" bearings in it so take it apart over a dish or something. There are two pawls spaced at ⅓ and ⅔ around the body (when I first opened mine, I thought I was missing one of three). I took mine apart due to a failure to engage - it was bunged up with grease. I put mine back together intending to use SFG only but it proved too difficult holding the bearings in place so I used a little silicone grease to hold them in place and then tried filling the unit as much as possible with SFG. I'm pretty sure the grease gumming the pawls up had migrated from the drive side wheel bearings and so I only use SFG on those too now, and "top them up" twice a year.
I bought this tool from ebay and it worked fine
Yeah, that part was easy! I suspect nailing down exactly what I need in replacement will be less-so, as I don't think there are any part numbers on it and Shimano's compatability information seems uncharacteristically opaque for such an otherwise accomplished company.
Looks like a lot of web-trawling ahead of me.. although tbh if a complete hub's only a bit more than just the freehub assy I might just go that way instead and rob the hub.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that - that really helps!
It's interesting to read some criticism on the net about the ratchet failing to engage at higher miles; but I guess this is most likely due to old sticky grease as you've found rather than wear so if they can be stripped (and adjusted) I suspect they can probably be kept going for a lot longer
I found this video by RJ the Bike Guy helpful also; mostly as it gives an approximate idea of the size of the preload adjustment shim.. it being clear now that this is indeed the way the preload is controlled. The main retaining bolt (with the 10mm hex drive) is apparently thread externally to M14, so I reckon the shim is probably M18 or M20 (assuming it's a standard DIN size, which is a big if); not sure what sort of precision on preload the 0.1mm increments of the thinnest items would give you mind. All that said looking back at that vid the shim looks maybe a bit too narrow to be a standard size..
I'm going to do a bit more research, but currently looking at a straight swap for a new freehub then looking to rebuild the original at my leisure and avoid the bike being sat around in bits while I sort the shims out.. although if I can tolerate that it will ultimately end up costing less if the original hub proves to be serviceable..
Further, thanks to this site and its convenient provision of a parts diagram and BOM I now have a part number for the complete freehub assy (Y-4FL98090) - there being several on ebay for £20.
That said there's also a complete hub for a little over £32 and £12 seems like a reasonable proposition for a spare hub body and skewer assy.. Best get one of them ordered then I suppose!
That said there's also a complete hub for a little over £32 and £12 seems like a reasonable proposition for a spare hub body and skewer assy.. Best get one of them ordered then I suppose!
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More "exciting" news..
Last night the Cateye rear light was inspected further, and like every other light I've experienced from this company sadly turned out to be cack.
One battery in particular was very tight to get in and out, a look inside revealing that this was because the light housing had been deformed where and excessively long mounting screw had bottomed out in its hole; impinging on the battery compartment. I tried to persuade it back with some hot water, however immersing the exterior resulted in the interior filling up, so it's obviously not as waterproof as it should be either.
I could flat back the deformed area but this will give yet another potential area for water ingress unless I take extra action, while the light is pretty tatty so think it can probably go in the bin
I've got a replacement freehub ordered, however am now second-guessing its sloppyness as the cause of the ghost-shifting issue as there's a similar / probably lesser amount of movement on my Team Carbon's cassette - which is somewhat odd as I think it has cartridge bearings (rather than cup and cone like the Shimano hub on the Fuji).
On the flip-side the ghost shifting issue persists while using friction shifting; which suggests that (my inability to shift correctly notwithstanding) maybe the problem does lie with something downstream of the shifter. I assume that the reason a bent RD hanger causes ghost shifting is effectively alters the amount by which the RD moves laterally with each indexed shift.. so presumably a hanger issue shouldn't really manifest when friction shifting..
I'm intrigued by the prospect of altering the shims in the fuji to tighten up the bearing race, however am mindful that since this is done with finite thickness shims (rather than an infinitely adjustable threaded preload adjustor, as is the case with the main axle bearings) that getting it exact could be a bit of a challenge. That's assuming I can get any shims of course; although presumably since existing shim thickness would need to be reduced to increase bearing preload I could potentially stone down the existing one to achieve this... although it's not really an ideal solution.
In other news the Fuji undertook its first "proper" shopping trip today - into the "local" Sainsburys via the scenic route giving a round trip of 18.5 miles. Again it was a bit daunting but really it went about as good as could be expected and I brought back around 6kg of shopping (on top of the 1.9kg of the bags) with little descernible difference in bike handling.. and all in all was a really positive experience on a cracking autumn afternoon 😊
Last night the Cateye rear light was inspected further, and like every other light I've experienced from this company sadly turned out to be cack.
One battery in particular was very tight to get in and out, a look inside revealing that this was because the light housing had been deformed where and excessively long mounting screw had bottomed out in its hole; impinging on the battery compartment. I tried to persuade it back with some hot water, however immersing the exterior resulted in the interior filling up, so it's obviously not as waterproof as it should be either.
I could flat back the deformed area but this will give yet another potential area for water ingress unless I take extra action, while the light is pretty tatty so think it can probably go in the bin
I've got a replacement freehub ordered, however am now second-guessing its sloppyness as the cause of the ghost-shifting issue as there's a similar / probably lesser amount of movement on my Team Carbon's cassette - which is somewhat odd as I think it has cartridge bearings (rather than cup and cone like the Shimano hub on the Fuji).
On the flip-side the ghost shifting issue persists while using friction shifting; which suggests that (my inability to shift correctly notwithstanding) maybe the problem does lie with something downstream of the shifter. I assume that the reason a bent RD hanger causes ghost shifting is effectively alters the amount by which the RD moves laterally with each indexed shift.. so presumably a hanger issue shouldn't really manifest when friction shifting..
I'm intrigued by the prospect of altering the shims in the fuji to tighten up the bearing race, however am mindful that since this is done with finite thickness shims (rather than an infinitely adjustable threaded preload adjustor, as is the case with the main axle bearings) that getting it exact could be a bit of a challenge. That's assuming I can get any shims of course; although presumably since existing shim thickness would need to be reduced to increase bearing preload I could potentially stone down the existing one to achieve this... although it's not really an ideal solution.
In other news the Fuji undertook its first "proper" shopping trip today - into the "local" Sainsburys via the scenic route giving a round trip of 18.5 miles. Again it was a bit daunting but really it went about as good as could be expected and I brought back around 6kg of shopping (on top of the 1.9kg of the bags) with little descernible difference in bike handling.. and all in all was a really positive experience on a cracking autumn afternoon 😊
Jameshow
Veteran
More "exciting" news..
Last night the Cateye rear light was inspected further, and like every other light I've experienced from this company sadly turned out to be cack.
One battery in particular was very tight to get in and out, a look inside revealing that this was because the light housing had been deformed where and excessively long mounting screw had bottomed out in its hole; impinging on the battery compartment. I tried to persuade it back with some hot water, however immersing the exterior resulted in the interior filling up, so it's obviously not as waterproof as it should be either.
I could flat back the deformed area but this will give yet another potential area for water ingress unless I take extra action, while the light is pretty tatty so think it can probably go in the bin
I've got a replacement freehub ordered, however am now second-guessing its sloppyness as the cause of the ghost-shifting issue as there's a similar / probably lesser amount of movement on my Team Carbon's cassette - which is somewhat odd as I think it has cartridge bearings (rather than cup and cone like the Shimano hub on the Fuji).
On the flip-side the ghost shifting issue persists while using friction shifting; which suggests that (my inability to shift correctly notwithstanding) maybe the problem does lie with something downstream of the shifter. I assume that the reason a bent RD hanger causes ghost shifting is effectively alters the amount by which the RD moves laterally with each indexed shift.. so presumably a hanger issue shouldn't really manifest when friction shifting..
I'm intrigued by the prospect of altering the shims in the fuji to tighten up the bearing race, however am mindful that since this is done with finite thickness shims (rather than an infinitely adjustable threaded preload adjustor, as is the case with the main axle bearings) that getting it exact could be a bit of a challenge. That's assuming I can get any shims of course; although presumably since existing shim thickness would need to be reduced to increase bearing preload I could potentially stone down the existing one to achieve this... although it's not really an ideal solution.
In other news the Fuji undertook its first "proper" shopping trip today - into the "local" Sainsburys via the scenic route giving a round trip of 18.5 miles. Again it was a bit daunting but really it went about as good as could be expected and I brought back around 6kg of shopping (on top of the 1.9kg of the bags) with little descernible difference in bike handling.. and all in all was a really positive experience on a cracking autumn afternoon 😊
Far cry from the cateye lights of old!
The oval ones bitd were ace and wish they still made them!
Perhaps.. sadly I've not experienced any of those. All the front ones have been heavy and dim, while the prevailing feeling has been that they've all just been a bit cheap and nasty. This one in itself would have probably been OK had it not relied on a super-shallow hole for a self-tapping screw to retain it, and had seals that actually worked..
Since it's essentially total loss I'm vaguely tempted to really go at it to see if I can make something serviceable out of it..
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Another unexciting update since I have far more important things to be getting on with.. 
I think we're reached the point on the graph where the lines of enthusiasm and acceptable functionality cross. There are still jobs to be done but the bike's serviceable as it is, so my drive to finish the niggly bits is fading.
The replacement freehub arrived recently and I think I might have made an error in seeking to replace the one currently fitted, since there's a (broadly speaking) similar amount of play in the new one - probably because you can only get it so tight using fixed-thickness shims. At least now I have a spare I guess, although it doesn't get me any closer to sorting the indexing issue.
While I'd prefer indexed shifting the back's OK using friction only; although there's maybe a bit of finnickyness at the higher (smaller sprocket) end of the cassette for some reason. Not sure if it's a chainline thing, the smaller sprockets are more prone to this or perhaps are more worn than the rest. I still want to make a tool to check hanger alignment but that keeps getting punted down the road in favour of more pressing matters..
Most cables remain too long while I dither over how to finish them.. apparently stainless doesn't like solder due to the chromium oxide layer that readily forms on its surface (and is also responsible for resisting further oxidation of the iron). This can be removed using acid-based fluxes so I might have another go at some point using phosphoric acid.. although I currently seem to lack a soldering iron
The one cable I am happy with is that for the RD, which has been curved gracefully back on itself to meet its outer, and taped into place (scintillating pic forgotten last time):
On the subject of the cables, it might be my imagination but the brake levers seem to be getting a shade slicker / lighter to operate with use, which I think could be down to the cable inners bedding in. When pushing some paper towel through them to clean them after cutting they did feel like they had some circumferential ridges inside, which may have smoothed out a little with use.
I'm also toying with the idea of fitting a new pair of bottle cages as I'd like more than one and of course they have to match. Currently keeping an eye on ebay for lower-end stuff; am vaguely tempted by some Topeak Shuttles and missed out on a new pair of silver ones for a tenner posted as I wasn't sure about the colour (I think I'd prefer black). There are a pair of used black ones on there for £14, but if going that far I might as well plump for a bit more and get some from Halfords for a little more than £18 new. I did buy some of these before for the CdF and wasn't impressed as they were a bit pished, but figured I might give them another chance as I'm less fussy about this bike and cost is obviously an issue too.
I've also just remembered that I probably want to remove the straps from the toe cages on the pedals, since I never used these as intended (bloody death trap tbh!) and only really need the cages to limit the forward position of my feet. If I pull the straps down too tight it gives little clearance to lift my foot enough to disengage with the long pins on the pedal (leading to mild panic every time I stop) while removing them would also mean I could pull my feet out from the sides as necessary - potentially helpful if muscle memory thinks I'm clipped into SPDs..
Finally I managed to sell the Brooks saddle for more than I paid for the replacement Brand X item, as well as also shifting the front rack for a few quid - which has further offset the cost of the bike as a whole. The top tube projector has gone to the charity shop, the really tatty bottle cage will probably follow.
This just leaves the stand (undecided as it was poorly fitted and has wrecked the underside of the chainstays, but I can see the appeal of having one fitted when trying to load / unload the bags) and front low-rider racks to do something with. For now the racks can stay off as I have no use for them and they get in the way when removing the front wheel, although I don't want to rule out their possible use in future. If this happens I'll need to find some way of retaining the hoop to the front of the racks since (just like most other things on this bike that were incomplete, bodged or broken) the little brackets that should do this are missing.. although I think I might get away with some P-clips.
I think we're reached the point on the graph where the lines of enthusiasm and acceptable functionality cross. There are still jobs to be done but the bike's serviceable as it is, so my drive to finish the niggly bits is fading.
The replacement freehub arrived recently and I think I might have made an error in seeking to replace the one currently fitted, since there's a (broadly speaking) similar amount of play in the new one - probably because you can only get it so tight using fixed-thickness shims. At least now I have a spare I guess, although it doesn't get me any closer to sorting the indexing issue.
While I'd prefer indexed shifting the back's OK using friction only; although there's maybe a bit of finnickyness at the higher (smaller sprocket) end of the cassette for some reason. Not sure if it's a chainline thing, the smaller sprockets are more prone to this or perhaps are more worn than the rest. I still want to make a tool to check hanger alignment but that keeps getting punted down the road in favour of more pressing matters..
Most cables remain too long while I dither over how to finish them.. apparently stainless doesn't like solder due to the chromium oxide layer that readily forms on its surface (and is also responsible for resisting further oxidation of the iron). This can be removed using acid-based fluxes so I might have another go at some point using phosphoric acid.. although I currently seem to lack a soldering iron
The one cable I am happy with is that for the RD, which has been curved gracefully back on itself to meet its outer, and taped into place (scintillating pic forgotten last time):
On the subject of the cables, it might be my imagination but the brake levers seem to be getting a shade slicker / lighter to operate with use, which I think could be down to the cable inners bedding in. When pushing some paper towel through them to clean them after cutting they did feel like they had some circumferential ridges inside, which may have smoothed out a little with use.
I'm also toying with the idea of fitting a new pair of bottle cages as I'd like more than one and of course they have to match. Currently keeping an eye on ebay for lower-end stuff; am vaguely tempted by some Topeak Shuttles and missed out on a new pair of silver ones for a tenner posted as I wasn't sure about the colour (I think I'd prefer black). There are a pair of used black ones on there for £14, but if going that far I might as well plump for a bit more and get some from Halfords for a little more than £18 new. I did buy some of these before for the CdF and wasn't impressed as they were a bit pished, but figured I might give them another chance as I'm less fussy about this bike and cost is obviously an issue too.
I've also just remembered that I probably want to remove the straps from the toe cages on the pedals, since I never used these as intended (bloody death trap tbh!) and only really need the cages to limit the forward position of my feet. If I pull the straps down too tight it gives little clearance to lift my foot enough to disengage with the long pins on the pedal (leading to mild panic every time I stop) while removing them would also mean I could pull my feet out from the sides as necessary - potentially helpful if muscle memory thinks I'm clipped into SPDs..
Finally I managed to sell the Brooks saddle for more than I paid for the replacement Brand X item, as well as also shifting the front rack for a few quid - which has further offset the cost of the bike as a whole. The top tube projector has gone to the charity shop, the really tatty bottle cage will probably follow.
This just leaves the stand (undecided as it was poorly fitted and has wrecked the underside of the chainstays, but I can see the appeal of having one fitted when trying to load / unload the bags) and front low-rider racks to do something with. For now the racks can stay off as I have no use for them and they get in the way when removing the front wheel, although I don't want to rule out their possible use in future. If this happens I'll need to find some way of retaining the hoop to the front of the racks since (just like most other things on this bike that were incomplete, bodged or broken) the little brackets that should do this are missing.. although I think I might get away with some P-clips.
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Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
It's a slim possability but, have you tried using the gears with a shimano branded shifter?
The reason I ask is because prior to fitting dura ace 9spd downtube shifters on mine I had some by a brand called SunRace. They were recommended by a chap on CyclingUK and swore they were great. They never once gave me a clean properly indexed shift/ They were s****. DuraAce = perfect shifts every time. I think any shimano 9spd shifter would have been fine too but they were on offer as they're out dated these days.
It might be worth checking.
The reason I ask is because prior to fitting dura ace 9spd downtube shifters on mine I had some by a brand called SunRace. They were recommended by a chap on CyclingUK and swore they were great. They never once gave me a clean properly indexed shift/ They were s****. DuraAce = perfect shifts every time. I think any shimano 9spd shifter would have been fine too but they were on offer as they're out dated these days.
It might be worth checking.
