Sort some lights out !

[User32269]

The Highway Code details the legal requirement for cycling between sunset and sunrise.
This subject seems to bring out the pedants and people with vastly inflated sense of their own intellect in much the same way the great helmet debate does.
Where has anybody stated that having lights/reflectors/hi viz will prevent some careless motorist wiping you out?
If you wish to arse about with manipulated statistics you can make a case that riding your bike whilst juggling chainsaws is safer than wearing a helmet and having lights.
If your opinion is that ALL the emphasis is on vehicle drivers to avoid accidents and us cyclists should ride around poorly lit streets like barely visible ninjas, then it is nonsensical.
Apart from legal requirements, there are moral obligations on both sides. Any vehicle driver not paying attention, or driving aggressively and putting any other road users or pedestrians in danger should have the right to drive taken away from them. They have what can effectively be a deadly weapon under their control.
As a cyclist during the hours of darkness there is a legal obligation for lights and reflectors. There also exists a moral obligation to attempt to make yourself visible to other road users, and to ride in a safe manned.
I agree that riding in primary position and remaining aware will greatly improve your safety. I personally find my experiences from driving are invaluable, helping me appreciate certain potential hazards when riding.
It is lazy and simplistic to absolve cyclists of all responsibility for their safety.

 

[steveindenmark]

Oh come on, megaphones are cheap as chips these days and have much improved battery life over the old days . There really is no excuse for going to the pub without one

Yet again Dan, you have probably lost us all with this one.

 

[Dan B]

You do realise that no one has suggested that it is a good idea to ride at night without lights?

I'm afraid that by pointing out what people have and haven't actually said you are basically guilty of pedanty

 

[theclaud]

Yet again Dan, you have probably lost us all with this one.

Not really.

 

[Dan B]

Yet again Dan, you have probably lost us all with this one.

If you're going to drink in a crowded noisy pub then the onus is on you to make yourself heard. You can't expect other people to listen out.

 

[steve50]

I totally agree with User32269. We all have a responsibility to ourselves and other road users to try and ensure the chances of an incident occurring are as drastically reduced as possible. A couple of points though, it would seem (imo) that a minority (majority) of motorists / drivers look upon cyclists as nothing more than a hindrance on their journey to wherever, they treat us with contempt and in many cases blame us for everything that is dangerous on todays roads.
I personally believe every non cyclist vehicle driver should attend a driver awareness course, (it'll never happen) perhaps it would teach some of them they are not the only road users out there and it may even surprise some of them to learn that a vast majority of the cyclists they treat with such contempt are also drivers of motorised vehicles.
Regards cyclists themselves i do believe we should make the effort to get ourselves noticed as much as possible when cycling in darkness. I use two sets of lights front and rear of my bike and i always wear bright coloured shirts or at night a florescent tabard over my cycle gear
if we all showed some courteousness to each other on the roads the number of accidents / incidents would be drastically reduced but that takes co-operation from everyone.

 

[steve50]

They regard other motorists, caravans, tractors etc etc etc the same way.

very true in some cases.

 

[ufkacbln]

Cunobelin. I am not sure what you mean by " cars littering the streets". Do you mean in streets lit by street lighting?

Littering - to dispose or or leave a man-made object in a place that is inappropriate, improper or inconsiderate as opposed to being placed properly

Walk round any town and you will see unlit cars on pavements, roads, junctions and green spaces........ fitting the definition

 

[steveindenmark]

Which cyclists?

Were talking about NOT seeing cyclists without lights. You are talking about seeing cars without lights. Not quite the same thing.

 

[ufkacbln]

If you can see them whats the problem?

An unlit car isn't a problem, everyone is expected to see it and react appropriately, yet an unlit cyclist in the same place is a problem?

Hundreds of accidents occur each year due to unlit parked vehicles......

Which cyclists?

Were talking about NOT seeing cyclists without lights. You are talking about seeing cars without lights. Not quite the same thing.

Which implies that people are seeing these vehicles and still hitting them?

 

[steveindenmark]

A stationary unlit car is 20 times the size of a bike. An unlit bike is often travelling at 20 kph in darkness. I can see the greater problem, cant you?

You think cyclists are seeing unlit cars and running into them?

I am just curious to know if you have a car.

 

[ufkacbln]

A stationary unlit car is 20 times the size of a bike. An unlit bike is often travelling at 20 kph in darkness. I can see the greater problem, cant you?

That is the problem, they could be the size of a block of flats, but unlit they are no more or less visible than a cyclist. In fact (theoretically) as moving objects register more than still ones, it could be argued that the cyclist is more visible

You think cyclists are seeing unlit cars and running into them?

Accidents with parked cars are not uncommon, so something is going wrong

Leaves two options... If you are arguing that these dark unlit vehicles are "easy to see" then road users are either not looking, interpreting or reacting (in which case lighting will make no difference) or indeed they are seeing them and running into them

I am just curious to know if you have a car.

Not sure of the relevance, but I travel by car, bus, rail, air and have in the past travelled by hovercraft and worked with Search and Rescue helicopters

 

[Sara_H]

I always have two rear lights (at least) in poor light/dark.
Can't understand why you wouldn't. Think lots of people just get out of the habit in summer. Saw loads of drivers without lights on in the fog last week.

 

[ufkacbln]

And a deer?

No.... I don't own a deer

 

[theclaud]

Yup. What drivers mean when they say they didn't see you (which is never literally true) is that actually they'd like you to signal your presence more emphatically so that they can pay correspondingly less attention. It's an arms race we can only lose. I've gone the other way in the last couple of years - deliberately brought down my lighting and gaudiness levels. And I ride about in all conditions, being seen because I am irreducibly there.