South Africa ponders vuvuzela ban

[661-Pete]

Yep, somebody mentioned this earlier - there were some Dutch clubs who adopted these 'toy trumpets' to try to silence the opposing fans. Nice find!

Er .... that was yours truly - at your service! (post 12).

The strategy certainly worked! Ajax Amsterdam won the competition, the second of three consecutive wins.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

What PSI will they go up do and do they have a bar mount ?

That would be a more appropriate use for them...

 

[Wigsie]

Whereas you do? You've failed to deal with debian's point on the history of the vuvezala and have yet to say why being 'cultural' equals being either 'good', 'acceptable' or any any other positive value you might want to consider.

Debians Point? there is none, its just moaning about the dissapointment that his (and apparently yours and a few others) views/expectations of what an African football match was like is not actual reality! Then, when someone disagrees, they are talking nonsense or they are spineless?

The history of the vuvuzela? does it really matter if its not deep seeded into zulu heritage over hundreds of years? It's still culture, todays African culture!

Singing the theme tune to a movie is English football culture! It's not nice and has undertones that mock a certain nation, yet its still an integral part of english national football and if we host the world cup in 2018 I am bloody sure it will be sung then with trumpets and drums very very loudly... perish the thought some people should tell us to stop singing it!

And comparing blowing a red horn to hooliganism is just moronic!

 

[Fnaar]

What PSI will they go up do and do they have a bar mount ?

They're better quality than the real ones, but purists are going for the Rapha 'Rouleur' Vuvuzela at £126.99

 

[Wigsie]

They're better quality than the real ones, but purists are going for the Rapha 'Rouleur' Vuvuzela at £126.99

I hear MacB has one on order to decorate that butterfly!

 

[Fab Foodie]

This is nothing like a musical interlude.

I agree, it's much better...

 

[4F]

I hear MacB has one on order to decorate that butterfly!

He could get about 4 or 5 on those. He certainly would have enough hot air to play them all at the same time

 

[Flying_Monkey]

The history of the vuvuzela? does it really matter if its not deep seeded into zulu heritage over hundreds of years? It's still culture, todays African culture!

...

And comparing blowing a red horn to hooliganism is just moronic!

Only if you completely fail to understand the point, which apparently you do.

Let me repeat, the point is that saying that something is 'culture' is not an argument. It has no value in itself unless you think that all culture is intrinsically valuable (in which case, British hooliganism, Disney films, snuff porn, Barbie, or any other item of 'culture' you care to mention, are equally good).

Otherwise, you still have to make an aesethic or moral judgement. So what do you think makes the vuvuzela good?

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I agree, it's much better...

I'd hate to hear your CD collection...

 

[Wigsie]

Only if you completely fail to understand the point, which apparently you do.

Let me repeat, the point is that saying that something is 'culture' is not an argument. It has no value in itself unless you think that all culture is intrinsically valuable (in which case, British hooliganism, Disney films, snuff porn, Barbie, or any other item of 'culture' you care to mention, is equally good).

Otherwise, you still have to make an aesethic or moral judgement. So what do you think makes the vuvuzela good?

Its not about what I think is good or bad, or failing to understand your definitition. If it is what Africans do week in week out at their football games then we should accept it, simple as. Its slightly more than a craze too as it has been around for 10-15 years consistently in the African game!

It is not hurting anyone, its not the same as football hooligans of the english game (which I am sure we all agree are unwelcome and yes they are both technically cultures).

I dont remember saying just because its culture then it must be good, simply that it should be tolerated as its not actually hurting you, just in your opinion disturbing your viewing experience.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

If it is what Africans do week in week out at their football games then we should accept it, simple as.

Not 'simple as', though is it? If it was, everyone would agree with you. And not 'Africans', South Africans. South Africans don't represent the entire continent. And in fact, this is drowning out the great variety of Africa as it is everything else.

It is not hurting anyone

I disagree - not only is it damaging to the hearing if you are within range, it is really irritating and damages the pleasure millions around the world are taking in the games.

I dont remember saying just because its culture then it must be good, simply that it should be tolerated as its not actually hurting you, just in your opinion disturbing your viewing experience.

You were using it being 'culture' as if this is an argument in itself. It isn't. Until you can produce more than just saying 'culture' over and over again in different ways, you aren't ever going to convince people who have an argument based on anything else.

And your argument is in itself self-defeating, because if you want even 'tolerance' for cultures (plural), why do you not accept that the vuvuzela is something that has no tolerance, let alone respect for the variety of different national sonic cultures that could be, and in my view, should be, on display here? This is the World Cup, not the South African Cup.

 

[dellzeqq]

just for you, FM, a slice of my CD collection

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU&feature=related


I think the vuvuzelas are fantastic. That noise just drills the game in to your head. They're what every football match needs,

(and they'd certainly liven up Test cricket)

 

[Flying_Monkey]

just for you, FM, a slice of my CD collection

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU&feature=related

Ha ha - much better than I thought - I was thinking it would be Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music!

I have always found that piece (Stockhausen) to be profoundly silly as well as unlistenable. I have always found that he's more interesting for the other musicians his experiments have influenced than his own music. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Wigsie]

I disagree - not only is it damaging to the hearing if you are within range, it is really irritating and damages the pleasure millions around the world are taking in the games.

The health and safety gang have clearly not made it to South Africa yet! if you were to mince around the stadiums with your clip board suggesting they put them away as they may damage your hearing I think you may experience some different South African Hospitality

And turn the volume down if it offends you ears. Watch some football to a Chopin soundtrack? I am sure you are right, millions are probably struggling to adjust but i would suggest there are millions and millions that either enjoy it, accept it and/or are totally indifferent and have better things to concern themselves with than whinge about it!

You were using it being 'culture' as if this is an argument in itself. It isn't. Until you can produce more than just saying 'culture' over and over again in different ways, you aren't ever going to convince people who have an argument based on anything else.

Likewise, you are continuing to argue because it irritates you, simply because it irritates your ears when watching and/or you are clearly upset they are not performing in the way you expect South Africans to does not make your arguement any more valid and you won't convince anyone who disagree otherwise.

And your argument is in itself self-defeating, because if you want even 'tolerance' for cultures (plural), why do you not accept that the vuvuzela is something that has no tolerance, let alone respect for the variety of different national sonic cultures that could be, and in my view, should be, on display here? This is the World Cup, not the South African Cup.

National Sonic Cultures? Ha ha I honestly can't believe I am wasting my time with someone that types like that!

It's the World Cup IN South Africa! so you can't expect it to be anything but a South African Experience. The whole point of having it in different countries is to vary the experience, Open your eyes .

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'd hate to hear your CD collection...

I'm a big RUSH fan