Punkawallah
Veteran
Yes, you complete and total pervert
:blushes: ‘Fie! Sir! Thou wilt turn mine head!’
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Spoke key.
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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:blushes: ‘Fie! Sir! Thou wilt turn mine head!’
Ajax Bay
Legendary Member
- Location
- East Devon
Your spokes (Hunt 4S, 24/28 F/R) are 'round' not bladed (which the 'aero' GCN marketeers 'all' use, often 'straight pull', no 'j' bend at hub). Bladed spokes need to stay oriented. Spokes may twist during truing, but once you're done a good squeeze all round will release any twists. Lubrication has been mentioned. This is worth it: one drip on the hub side of the rim, hopefully eyeletted, on all the front spoke holes and the drive side (DS) rear. The reason for not using any on the NDS ones is because they are typically 2/3rds the DS tension, so far less friction (nipple/eyelet).
I have 'literally' had to solve a wheel/rim like yours. My son hit a pothole hard resulting in a dented (rim-brake) rim - amazingly he didn't suffer a snake bite (Day 3 of a trek to Cornwall).
I could have sorted out the braking surface but the catastrophe was a significant 'flat' 5cm there to the extent that the NDS spoke had gone loose (so also a local 'buckle' to the right).
It's very difficult (as in only experts on here will say they could) to true a rim radially in this circumstance (which I suspect is yours as well as laterally). LBS, new rim, ERD 10mm more, perchance I had two sets of 16 black spokes right length, new nipples, lace the hub to it, trued on an empty frame. Roll on.
(What’s a good value spoke key? Spokey for me too.)
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SuperGalactian
Well-Known Member
Speaking of the pinging noises that spokes make if they have to release tension … On the last day of our most recent cycle tour, we made a short local foray before catching the train home. As we hit a length of gravel track, I heard that instantly recognisable pinging noise from my bike. Now, I knew the wheels had been dead true at the start of the trip, so my immediate thought was that a spoke had broken, causing its neighbours to reassess their position. So I stopped and dismounted, but could see no fault. Set off again, and a short distance along, that pinging noise happened again. Had another look, still couldn’t see anything wrong. This repeated several times, until finally I realised that the waist strings on my shorts - which had metal ends - were pinging on the top tube.
Doh! I generally wear lycra on the bike, but because of the train journey I was in mufti for once. Lesson learned, you might think, but after thinking about it, I had a very, very faint recollection that it had maybe happened (and been solved) once before …
Doh! I generally wear lycra on the bike, but because of the train journey I was in mufti for once. Lesson learned, you might think, but after thinking about it, I had a very, very faint recollection that it had maybe happened (and been solved) once before …
- Location
- Inside my skull
What size nipples is it for?
- Location
- Inside my skull
Yellow Spokey for me. Nice and easy to use, grip nipples well, easy to gauge how much you have turned it. A little grease or light oil on spoke threads to make it easier to tension without too much spoke twisting going on till final turns.
Tip, if you use higher spoke count wheels, you have less tension in each individual spoke, and less tendency for twisting when bringing spokes up to tension.
Tip, if you use higher spoke count wheels, you have less tension in each individual spoke, and less tendency for twisting when bringing spokes up to tension.
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#0, 1, 2 & 3
OP
OP
Milzy
Legendary Member
Well I got the wheel tru. 13 it said on my key. A few pings happened when turning the spoke key? had the bike in the stand. Used brake pad as a datum.
I had to do many spokes all around the same amount clock wise. Then I re-centred the rim brakes.
The wheel may collapse on me or I may have blagged it. Soon see.
I had to do many spokes all around the same amount clock wise. Then I re-centred the rim brakes.
The wheel may collapse on me or I may have blagged it. Soon see.
rogerzilla
Squire
I've been trying to true a new wheel and failing miserably. Tensions were very even all round but the thing had about 2 inches of runout. I slackened it all right off and will start again. I think it's the wheelbuilder's worst nightmare: a weak rim that elastically buckles into a soft pringle before you can get decent tension into it (I don't like Mavics for this reason, never have, but this was the only 40h narrow rim I could find in the UK - a NOS Module 3). I'll do it tomorrow and shoot for just under 100kgf. I normally go a bit tighter than that.
Punkawallah
Veteran
‘Pings’ are normal, unless they turn into ‘cracks’ which could mean a broken spoke :-)
When you ride it, the first few yards will be to musical accompaniment.
The Joy of Cycling!
rogerzilla
Squire
Pings aren't normal when cycling. That's the sound of your wheel going out of true. All the twist needs to be removed before you put a tyre on it and ride.
My wheel trued up fine this morning, and to my usual "intimidating" tension. I think I was messing with the tensionometer too much yesterday, a tool I rarely use. Anyway, spokes are within 5% of each other.
My wheel trued up fine this morning, and to my usual "intimidating" tension. I think I was messing with the tensionometer too much yesterday, a tool I rarely use. Anyway, spokes are within 5% of each other.
OP
OP
Milzy
Legendary Member
That’s what I thought. It’s ok to ping when altering but when riding along shouldn’t ping.
- Location
- Inside my skull
If it pings immediately after building or substantial truing usually means you have missed a step or not done it very well.
Punkawallah
Veteran
Calm down. The guy is using brake pads to straighten the wheel. He probably hasn’t heard of Munson, much less read it.
rogerzilla
Squire
I have to admit that I've not read it either, but I have read Brandt. I can't remember where I learned to lace wheels. It was possibly Sloan's book on Bicycle Maintenance. He did emphasise the importance of getting one particular spoke right - if you lace one side first, it's the first spoke on the second side that is the tricky one. With a 40-spoke hub, it takes a bit of a squint to make sure it's going in the right hole. Oo-er.
OP
OP
Milzy
Legendary Member
Musson heavily emphasizes "massaging" or squeezing pairs of spokes together during and after the process. This releases torsional twist from the spokes so the wheel doesn't immediately snap back out of alignment on your first ride. It’s just a home mechanic sorting a slight “out” out not a full wheel build like Harry Rowland & Pete Mathews.
