Sportives - are they out of control?

[oldroadman]

Speaking to some friends down south, the local BC people were called in by police and the upshot wass that while the police could do nothing about the sportives/charity rides/etc using the New Forest almost EVERY WEEK from April to September (and beyond) they could stop proper races. Which has happened. No races there after April and before October - so effectively almost nothing. So there is a direct effect on competition. The local moaners only see people on bikes with numbers on, to them it's a race, and having personally witnessed the minority lunatic fringe who treat it as such, I can see why they are moaning!
As I said already, I suspect that if we (as the sport and pastime) don't get our own house in order, someone will step in and the results will not be good for cycling.
I do agree (having visited during the week) that the Forest roads are busy and plenty of 4x4 and Volvo types are in evidence, sometimes going too fast for the conditions, but that's real life I'm afraid, and the culture change to shift that will take time and government will to do something. The Dutch managed it but it took many years, it didn't just happen.

 

[User169]

The Dutch managed it but it took many years, it didn't just happen.

There are similar issues re sportives in NL. The numbers of events taking place in the Limburg may well be restricted in the wake of increasing complaints from locals. I think sportives actually got cancelled in Belgium this year because the organisers couldn't get permission to run the event (at least that was what a colleague told me who couldn't ride an event he'd been riding for years).

 

[Hacienda71]

I received the following email from a friend yesterday. It is tongue in cheek before all the sportive riders on the forum take offence although having ridden a couple of sportives it did make me smile.

have been sent this and thought of your safety!


How to stay safe around Sportivists. A Guide

We want cyclists to stay safe when cycling near other vehicles, especially larger ones, like sportive riders. The safety advice is simple, “Stay safe, stay away”.

The “Stay safe, stay away” advice applies to cyclists when cycling near to moving Sportive riders or approaching any stationary Sportivists on the road, at junctions, traffic lights, on climbs or at feed stations. It's important to stay out of the risk zone and get into a position where the sportive rider can see you over their Garmin.

Follow our tips below to find out how to protect yourself.Safety tips

Cycle sensibly and assertively to help yourself. Stay safe, especially at traffic lights, junctions, corners, straight roads, climbs, descents, and anywhere that might be a Strava segment.

* Recognise that sportive riders may not be able to see you, and are often oblivious to your presence.

*Never cycle up the left side of a sportivist riding in the middle of the road.

*Look out for sportive riders wandering left or right for no reason in front of you.

*If a rider comes up behind you, move forward enough merely to ensure you are in the sportivist’s field of vision and in no way to try and drop them.

*In front of a Sportive rider is often the safest place to be. When you need to overtake a large sportivist, do so on the right-hand side at speed, so that the rider can’t keep up with you.Be Aware

The risk zone area can be the full length and width of the road, with the sportivist unable to see anyone cycling beside them on the left, or the right.

*Both new and experienced cyclists have been hurt in collisions with sportivists. This often happens when a sportive rider veers left to stop on a climb, to look at the view, to take off his gilet, to put on his arm-warmers or turn into a feed zone, hitting innocent cyclists on the nearside.

*Don't assume any large gap between sportivists is safe. When veering across the road for no reason large riders often wobble over to the right before they swing sharply across to the left to stop.


*Don't risk your life by trying to pass sportive riders when they are stopped at junctions, they may simply be confused by the event direction arrows and could suddenly turn either left or right. Wait until they have moved on, and turn the other way.

“Stay safe, stay away” is dedicated to reducing sportivists danger to cyclists through the use of awareness and reliability trials.

 

[ColinJ]

You are saying that motoring being out of control is real life but we, in the sense of cyclists, have to put our house in order? Why?

Two wrongs don't make a right, perhaps ...?

 

[oldroadman]

I simply stated what is the situation at present. It may change, I don't know. What I do know is that the lunatic fringe are damaging to the cause of sensible and safe shared use of the road by acting in a silly manner and as if they are in a race - which would be much more a controlled environment with lead cars, motos, commissaires, etc. A sportive is a "sporting ride" where you are testing yourself against a prescribed course, not race. Given the chance I would remove all timing chips and anything that could be related to a "result" where person A can say the "beat" person B. Look at the legal definition of a race or time trial, "a trial of speed", the danger is sportives are becoming exactly that for cycling idiots.
If you want to come from a position of strength on the roads, first be the sensible and legal users, assert your right to be there, but keep it sane and sensible. Militantcy where a 8kg bike and 70kg rider is against a 1000kg metal object does not sound a contest that can be won. A "charm offensive" on the other hand leaves the NIMBYs with nowhere to go. In the end we all have to co-exist in this imperfect world, and realism, thinking about how best the change things without getting into pointless fights, would seem to be the most sensible thing. What is not sensible is having 1,000 plus people of which perhaps 20-40 are acting stupidly, aggravating other legitimete road users, who then tag the other 96-+ as lunatics as well. What good does this do cycling?

 

[alecstilleyedye]

apologies if i missed it, but also there have also been concerns about the etiquette of group riding. experience of this comes from club riding where new members are introduced to the unwritten rules of the road (alluded to in the veluminati's rules) that are primarily about keeping the bunch safe (even pros in races point out pot holes etc.), but anyone who has never ridden in a group can front up at a sportive and make a nuisance of themselves and compromise the safety of themselves and others.

I know whose wheel to follow and whose wheel to avoid on the club run; no chance of that on a sportive...

 

[totallyfixed]

Purely from observation as we only ever rode one sportive, the London to Canterbury before the TdF and vowed never to do another because of the idiots who spoiled the ride by ignoring most of the rules of the road. I see three major problems with them, firstly they have got too big, secondly they are timed, which in effect makes them a race for many, and third there is little or no regulation / policing on the day.
After saying all that Sportives have probably got more bums on saddles than ever, it's just that a lot of those bums don't have much experience. If you could buy a car and without any instruction and no test imagine the daily carnage on the roads, and yet you can do this with a bike, ok I know it obviously can't do the damage a car can but nevertheless it is a vehicle on a public road and if ridden by a clueless individual can be potentially lethal, multiply that by several hundred and it is not surprising there are problems.
A Sportive this summer came through Rutland and passed through Oakham town center, we were out shopping on foot and saw many of the riders going through the lights at the crossroads on red, as we got nearer one bloke came through at red and I shouted at him, the street was full of people walking but it didn't stop him from looking back and yelling f***k off. Wish I had been on my bike.
A week or so later I had to take the car to the local garage and the owner, who knows I am a club cyclist told me that this same Sportive came through the village [Ashwell] and that there were road work traffic lights on a blind bend just outside the garage and in his words, none of the riders stopped when the lights showed red. This was embarrassing for me because I didn't really have an answer.
So long as no one sticks a pin in the Sportive bubble, they will continue to grow, because for promoters they make a lot of money.
I have no wish to stop mamil's taking up cycling or anyone else, indeed just the opposite, but if you are going to behave like a twunt it will tar us all with the same brush and this I do not accept.

 

[400bhp]

. I see three major problems with them, firstly they have got too big, secondly they are timed, which in effect makes them a race for many, and third there is little or no regulation / policing on the day.
.

The timing is bonkers and I'm really surprised the insurers (for which the organisers will need public liability) allow it-albeit they probably heavility caveat the insurance stipulations with things like x number of ambulances on standby/police authorisation.

I can't see the timing lasting to be honest. It will take a couple of deaths before timing is banned I guess.

 

[RichK]

We gave up family Sky rides thanks to the terrifying behaviour of a small number of cyclists, ...

Not just you. My son asked to not go this year for the same reason.

... though they were usually teenagers on BSOs rather than wannabe racer MAMILs. ...!

except in our case it was wannabe racers & not teenagers.

 

[Hacienda71]

They should also ban Strava. Loonies everywhere trying to achieve silly times in non race situations.

 

[mcshroom]

Perhaps we could run rides that only published a list of finishers instead of times. Perhaps even have a maximum speed of, say 30km/h, and of course we'd need a minimum speed of something like 15km/h.

To prevent the problem of people taking down route signs we could supply them with a sheet of suggested directions, and a set of points (lets call them 'controls') they have to pass through. Perhaps these controls could be placed in cafes. This woud mean that instead of expensive timing chips, all a rider might need to carry would be a sort of 'brevet' card to stamp at these controls.

 

[phil_hg_uk]

Brooks saddles, Caradice bags, mudguards, sandals, and optional beards?

and that is just the women

 

[mcshroom]

All optional, on my last one of these events I had exactly none of those

 

[slowmotion]

Brooks saddles, Caradice bags, mudguards, sandals, and optional beards?

I like it! Trash the gel sachets too.........

 

[Banjo]

Perhaps we could run rides that only published a list of finishers instead of times. Perhaps even have a maximum speed of, say 30km/h, and of course we'd need a minimum speed of something like 15km/h.

To prevent the problem of people taking down route signs we could supply them with a sheet of suggested directions, and a set of points (lets call them 'controls') they have to pass through. Perhaps these controls could be placed in cafes. This woud mean that instead of expensive timing chips, all a rider might need to carry would be a sort of 'brevet' card to stamp at these controls.

Thats ridiculous,it could never work.Next you will be suggesting that riders could eat the full english at cafes or even have a pint on the way round. Crazy idea.