Sportives - are they out of control?

[ianrauk]

Thats ridiculous,it could never work.Next you will be suggesting that riders could eat the full english at cafes or even have a pint on the way round. Crazy idea.

And I bet that included in the miserly riding fee, some of the start and finishing controls will have real food available, Jacket potatoes, Pasta, selection of rolls, biccies, tea and coffee etc rather then just Banana's and Gels.

 

[ColinJ]

One wrong, significantly more harmful than the other, so which do we address?

It isn't an either/or question.

• Bad driving needs to be sorted out

• Bad cycling needs to be sorted out

I was descending Holme Moss on the Brian Robinson Sportive once when I caught up 2 slower riders. I could tell that were inexperienced and feared what they might do as I overtook them so I had a good look ahead to check that the road was clear, and looked back up the hill to make sure all was clear behind me, called out, and then overtook them as far to the right as I could go. Just as I passed, the second rider veered out 2/3 of the way across the road to overtake the first, without checking what was behind him ... If I hadn't anticipated that he was going to do that, a great deal of harm would have been done to both of us

 

[Globalti]

Nearest I've come to dying on my bike was when I overtook a group of kids on BSOs and one of them suddenly veered into my path without looking over his shoulder. I bounced off him, hit the kerb and somersaulted, smacking the back of my head hard enough on the pavement that I saw black and my helmet broke clean down the middle.

 

[DCLane]

The Wiggle White Peak on Sunday is likely to be one of my final sportives*.

Why? Mostly because of the behaviour of riders on them. As @ColinJ put earlier, their riding skills are often appalling. No shoulder checks, lines all over the place, weaving, stopping, etc.

This year's Brian Robinson ride had riders stopping on their new (probably unridden) Pinarello Dogma's in full Sky kit at the first, albeit steep-ish, hill. What made it worse was they stopped all over the road, causing a hazard for everyone, not just the other riders.

The Dragon Ride had some really bad descending; riders weaving all over at low-ish speeds (30-40mph) when others like me were passing them**. The same happened in the Etape Pennines last year.

The Manchester Great Cycle had riders all over the place and some very slow riders on the 52-mile route being a mid-lane mobile hazard.

Of those I've done this year the only decent one was the Etape du Dales*, possibly because it's longer and harder together with a smaller number of riders so they're spaced out.

* I've put 'likely to be' as I may do the Etape du Dales again next year.
** Yes, you could argue that it's my fault for passing them, but on a wide, straight descent surely you should be able to keep a straight-ish line!

 

[ColinJ]

I agree that it is not either/or. I just get a little bit fed up with calls for cycling to put its house in order lest drivers and/or wider society take against us. It is such a mote beam issue that our side of it is almost insignificant.

I agree that drivers are generally more of a threat to us than other cyclists, but I have seen really appalling riding on most of the sportives that I have done.

On the Manchester 100 route there is a singletrack bridge over a canal, access controlled by traffic lights. I saw a large group of riders go through a red light, turn onto the bridge and then force oncoming traffic to stop. The riders went by on both sides of the first car, screaming abuse at the poor driver, sticking their fingers up at him, and some even banged on the car roof as they passed. Bloody mob mentality! (They didn't even have the excuse of
being inexperienced - they were riding in club jerseys and looked pretty fit.)

Nearest I've come to dying on my bike was when I overtook a group of kids on BSOs and one of them suddenly veered into my path without looking over his shoulder. I bounced off him, hit the kerb and somersaulted, smacking the back of my head hard enough on the pavement that I saw black and my helmet broke clean down the middle.

I gave an old bike to my ex's brother. He loved it. I asked him about it a couple of years later and he said that it was a write-off after an accident similar to yours!

 

[jarlrmai]

Mob mentality takes over and the safety of the group gives rise to a release of built up frustration at car drivers, I enjoyed the 52 mile GMC which was on closed roads but I think being too near the front would have made it less enjoyable. I really don't want to deal with "those riders" on a main road with cars as well as cyclists all trying to be Cancellara without the actual skill.

 

[PK99]

The Dragon Ride had some really bad descending; riders weaving all over at low-ish speeds (30-40mph) when others like me were passing them**. The same happened in the Etape Pennines last year.

some would argue that calling 30-40mph lowish speed is just the wannabe racer behaviour that is being criticised. It might be best to keep those sorts of speeds for real races or club runs with equally competent riders - not when mixing it with hobby riders out on a ride.

Thr club colleague I quoted earlier in the thread specifically commented on the aggressive cycling she saw on the Dragon Ride

 

[the_mikey]

Brooks saddles, Caradice bags, mudguards, sandals, and optional beards?

Last audax I rode there was a rider, with a steel framed touring bike, brooks saddle, beard and had a pint of ale in his hand at the first control point.

 

[Globalti]

I saw one of those this summer in Whalley; he was the stereotypical long-haul guy on a steel bike with saddlebag, old-style toeclips, Brooks saddle and downtube shifters. Skinny as a rake and a pudding-basin helmet perched uselessly on the back of his noggin. He was accompanied by his two teenage children, both on bikes the wrong size for them, both exhausted (this was at 5.00 in the afternoon) both badly sunburned and both looking surly and unhappy as hell. They had ridden from Chorley and were on their way to spend the night at Slaidburn YHA. It didn't look like a happy family outing to me.

 

[User269]

Reading reports about disruption of sportives by locals, actual attempted sabotage, and constant complaints from resident, are sportives simply too big and out of control?
Are there simply too many in some areas (New Forest, Surrey around Box Hill, for instance)?
Are some very stupid riders treating the events as a "5th category road race" (very dangerous and inconsiderate to all)?
Are these events harming the image of cycling?
And if all this is not fixed, is legislation likely to be the outcome, so that a sportive will need a proper risk assessment, permit, and officials with powers to penalise up to DQ, just like a road race?

I ask because it is looking likely that if enough influential people (please don't shout NIMBY!) get brassed off, legislation which we won't like might get imposed.

Discuss SENSIBLY....(posted in hope).

I find this deeply depressing. Where l live we are plagued by endless vintage and veteran car and motorcycle rallies, causing extra traffic and a great deal of noise. In addition to the organised events there are large groups of 'rolling traffic jam' motorcyclists riding in excess of the speed limit, again noisily. And people choose to take action against a cycling event??

 

[DRHysted]

Strangely the worst riding I saw on Sunday were all from groups in team kits. The overtaking was done with only a few inches between handle bars (they may be comfortable with this but I'm not), there were no shoulder checks to ensure they had past me, they just cut in when they wanted, and no warning they were coming.
Personally I do nearly all my riding alone (so far sportives are my only experiance of group riding). If I'm overtaking I call "passing on the right" or similar, I always give a few feet of distance, and I always check I am some distance ahead before I tuck back in.
From what I have seen from the groups passing my house to get to the New Forest this club riding style is not reserved for sportives, which is one of the reasons I have not looked into joining a club.

 

[totallyfixed]

Take a country lane that is for the sake of argument 5 miles long before another junction is reached, even if all the riders on a large Sportive are behaving reasonably but are strung out in a long line, the car will not be able to overtake because there would be nowhere to safely pull in again if another vehicle comes the opposite way, for the driver an eight or nine minute journey becomes one of twenty with the added pressure of being surrounded by cyclists [I use the term loosely] There is a good reason why club cyclists ride in tight compact groups other than for drafting purposes and instinctively know when to "single out", they are all part of the etiquette of group riding.
Another phenomena has also occurred, on another forum a thread has been running about how club riding in many parts of the country is under threat from "Sportive" riders joining the clubs and disrupting what used to be an enjoyable social ride into a free for all, with these riders unwilling to take on the wisdom of the senior club men and women.
I am with oldroadman on this, I think something is going to give somewhere, but at present I honestly think that despite the increased number of "cyclists" out there, skill, etiquette and simple good manners are in shorter supply.

 

[PK99]

Strangely the worst riding I saw on Sunday were all from groups in team kits. The overtaking was done with only a few inches between handle bars (they may be comfortable with this but I'm not), there were no shoulder checks to ensure they had past me, they just cut in when they wanted, and no warning they were coming.
.

Snap!

On the charity ride (not even a Sportive ffs!) there was a group of very fit very fast riders in a tight group all in the same kit (linked to the charity) who swept past slower riders in a tight double line. When they passed me, I could have put my hand on the guys bars he was that close.

 

[TonyEnjoyD]

Sounds like locals, residents etc out of control to me.

Was that not the GNR Arch?

 

[oldroadman]

Interesting run of comment. Clearly some people are nervous of close passes, although if you are able to ride in a reasonably straight line there should be no problem. Comments about descending skill (lack of) I can bvelieve, it takes confidence and experience to be a good safe descender, and whilst confidence may abound skill and experience clearly do not.
I stated that in order to start criticising others (it's really boring how people criticise "drivers", thus type casting them in the same way as everyone who rides a bike is a "cyclist") in a constructive fashion, first ensure you are not in a glass house throwing stones. The rest of the comments on this thread would seem to evidence this. So I repeat, unless sportives get a grip of the issues, someone will propose and get through some very challenging legislation, then what?