SRAM vs Shimano

[gregster]

Am looking at getting a new bike soon and the 2 it comes down to at the moment are the Spesh Allez Elite and the Boardman carbon. Spesh uses Shimano Tiagra throughout while the Boardman uses SRAM Rival components for most of it's gearing.
I'm using Shimano at the moment and like the way it works, and have had a brief go with the SRAM and think I could get used to it reasonably quickly.
Anyone else used the two and found a preferrence over the other? Supposedly the SRAM is ona par with Ultegra stuff, but would need to change a lot more than the shifters if I wanted to upgrade to Boardman, whereas I'm led to believe Shimano is interchangable.
Thanks

 

[Scoosh]

Am looking at getting a new bike soon and the 2 it comes down to at the moment are the Spesh Allez Elite and the Boardman carbon. Spesh uses Shimano Tiagra throughout while the Boardman uses SRAM Rival components for most of it's gearing.
I'm using Shimano at the moment and like the way it works, and have had a brief go with the SRAM and think I could get used to it reasonably quickly.
Anyone else used the two and found a preferrence over the other? Supposedly the SRAM is ona par with Ultegra stuff, but would need to change a lot more than the shifters if I wanted to upgrade to Boardman, whereas I'm led to believe Shimano is interchangable.
Thanks

No one seems to be commenting on this and, unfortunately, my input is limited too .

I used downtube shifters before getting SRAM Rival on my Condor - and I like them. Very easy to get used to the shifting and to know the little quirks. I would recommend them - and I am led to believe that, should the innards get in a mess, you can DIY sort them, whereas I am led to believe that Shimano are binned

 

[MacB]

I'd like to hear about SRAM as well as there's a lot less info around. I know the cassettes are interchangeable with Shimano but understand the shifters aren't. Or at least you'd need to change mechas as well. Seems a bit weird as I thought the essence of shifter compatability was cable pull.

 

[TheDoctor]

It's cable pull and rear mech geometry. SRAM shifters pull twice as much cable as Shimano, and SRAM rear mechs need twice as much cable pull to move one cog across, as it were. What is compatable between the two are cassettes - same splines and same spacing. My Ribble bike uses Shimano gears and shifters but a SRAM cassette - and it works perfectly.

 

[MacB]

Thanks Doc, is there any evidence that there is a benefit to any of the 3 cable pull/rear mech geometries combinations? Coz it would be rather nice if everything worked together, actually put some competition out there.

 

[bonj2]

i've got one bike with shimano on and one with sram on and the sram is definitely faster changing, though that may be because it has got a double rather than a triple and has therefore got a short cage mech.

I would say it is a bit of a learning curve to get used to sram, it is possible to change down two when you meant to change down one, or to change up when you meant to change down one. But once you learn it, i.e. gain the muscle memory for how much it needs to shift down it's very intuitive and quite satisfying.

Downshifts from the drops are inherently easier as you don't have to move your hand one bit, it's all done with the index or middle finger.

I would say if you use the drops a lot, consider sram.

If you mainly use the hoods, or you don't 'take well to new things', or you like shimano and see no reason to go different, get shimano.

It's cable pull and rear mech geometry. SRAM shifters pull twice as much cable as Shimano, and SRAM rear mechs need twice as much cable pull to move one cog across, as it were. What is compatable between the two are cassettes - same splines and same spacing. My Ribble bike uses Shimano gears and shifters but a SRAM cassette - and it works perfectly.

the way to remember it is : shfiters and mech have to be the same *make*, shifters and cassette have to be the same *speed*.

 

[TheDoctor]

Thanks Doc, is there any evidence that there is a benefit to any of the 3 cable pull/rear mech geometries combinations?

SRAM reckon thier one needs less fettling - because is pulls so much more cable, it's supposed to be less sensitive to cable stretch, which I can kind-of see.

Coz it would be rather nice if everything worked together, actually put some competition out there.

Wouldn't it just! Various combos of Shimano and Campag stuff works (for varying values of 'works'!!) but SRAM is so different that combining it with anything else doesn't really achieve a lot...

 

[TheDoctor]

the way to remember it is : shfiters and mech have to be the same *make*, shifters and cassette have to be the same *speed*.

Well, yes,mostly. And no, a little bit.

In so far as a 10 speed Campag shifter just so happens to pull the right amount of cable to shift 8 speed Shimano, and also works 9 speed Shimano if you route the cable differently. I'm sure that's just coincidence, as there's been that many combinations of 8/9/10/11 speed Campag and 7/8/9/10 speed Shimano that something was bound to work with something else!

 

[yenrod]

I'd like to have a go of SRAM gearshifting, I know some bloke bought a Boardman just to get it...!

 

[bonj2]

.....................................................................
...............................................................
...............................................................Campag..............................................................................
................................ <something techical> ...........................................................................................................
..Campag ...................................................................................

oh, WELL - if you *must* go down that route...

 

[bonj2]

I'd like to have a go of SRAM gearshifting, I know some bloke bought a Boardman just to get it...!

ask an LBS if they can set one up on a turbo. that's how i first tried it.

 

[TheDoctor]

oh, WELL - if you *must* go down that route...

No, not saying I would (I haven't!!) but it's doable.
Mind you, I've got (amongst others) a Brompton with hub gears, a dérailleur and mudguards, so what would I know ?

 

[MacB]

oh, WELL - if you *must* go down that route...

To be fair Bonj it's really not rocket science and seems to have been made overly complex by the major manufacturers 'accidently' producing incompatible shifting setups. If there was no rear mech in between then cable pull would be a direct factor of sprocket pitch(width between sprockets). I know you may well know this but others may not, I certainly didn't until I did some homework. So I'm going to post my understanding and please correct if there are errors.

Bar Levers - STI=Shimano, Ergo=Campagnola & Double Tap=SRAM, all 3 are indexed which means they are a ratchet and release mechanism. Or each movement of the mechanism will pull or release a certain amount of cable. Some can pull or release various lengths to allow for multiple shifts. There is also a generic lever called Modolo Morphos which claims to work with any system, however reviews on this product are very unfavourable. Fiddly setup, poor quality and lots of phantom shift type issues.

Cassettes - this is the combination of sprockets at the rear, your largest sprocket(most amount of teeth), will be dictated by the cage length of the rear mech. Longer cage more teeth can be handled and vice versa. SRAM and Shimano have identical width sprockets and gaps between sprockets also the fitting to the freehub matches as well. Campagnola have a different freehub fitting and a 0.2mm variance in the pitch(space) between sprockets. The freehub fitting rather than pitch variance is the biggest hindrance. As 0.2mm per sprocket is a very small variance and a rear mech normally has some play allowance anyway, which is greater than 0.2mm.

Rear Mechs - these are a spring loaded pulley/jockey wheel system that the chain runs through. The cable pull from the bar levers is translated into movement of the mech and thus movement of the chain across the cassette. The mechs for the 3 manufacturers all differ in cable routing and geometry. This means that each requires a different amount of cable pull to effect the same amount of chain movement. Thus the levers and mechs from the 3 don't blend well together.

There are ways around it and some accidental matches, ie Campagnola 11 speed is meant to work with Shimano 9 speed mechs with no mods. Campag 10 speed is meant to work with Shimano 9 speed if you alter the cable routing at the Shimano mech. Search for Shimergo on CTC to see the article with all the mix and match results. There's also the Shiftmate from Jtek which you can route the cable through on the way into the rear mech. This is like an extra jockey wheel which translates the amount of cable being pulled by the lever to match that required by the mech. I haven't seen any work arounds for SRAM with other stuff, only the other two together.

Any more info on this stuff, or corrections, gratefully accepted

 

[Scoosh]

I'd like to have a go of SRAM gearshifting, I know some bloke bought a Boardman just to get it...!

Paul Hewitt has (or certainly had last year) a SRAM gear system set up on a bike on a turbo exactly so people can try it.

 

[bonj2]

To be fair Bonj it's really not rocket science and seems to have been made overly complex by the major manufacturers 'accidently' producing incompatible shifting setups. If there was ...<snip long essay>

but it's very very VERY simple if you don't involve campagnolo.
if you want campagnolo on your bike, *everything* has to be campagnolo - including wheels, which is the worst part. If only the hubs were compatible with other cassettes, the mech/shifter incompatibility wouldn't be so bad. But you have to have a campag wheel...

If you don't touch campagnolo, the compatibility can be summed up with the one simple sentence that I gave, if you involve campagnolo, then as your post illustrates you need to read and understand 4 paragraphs, thus you need to either have campag wheels, OR have a degree in groupset component inter-compatibility. That's one of the reasons i'm sceptical of campagnolo.