Stealth tax

[Norm]

Look around you on the motorway. There's room to escape, and there are fixed barriers. Not so at roadworks. The speed reduction isn't just for worker safety.

Which is true, break downs have much more potential for serious problems without a hard shoulder.

However, away from motorways and dual cabbage-ways, you have oncoming traffic, you don't have hard shoulders, nor crash barriers, and some are remarkably narrow but they can still carry 60mph limits without becoming candidates for Death Race 2010.

The bit of motorway I was referring to a few pages back had no restrictions to the carriageway width, no contra-flow, chuffing thick barriers between oncoming lanes and runs dead straight but someone considered that the roadworks warranted a 40mph limit.

Variable speed limits seem to work on the M25, although I have noticed that, when the limits are reduced, there is a huge amount of under-taking, something which is pretty rare on most motorways now.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Variable speed limits seem to work on the M25, although I have noticed that, when the limits are reduced, there is a huge amount of under-taking, something which is pretty rare on most motorways now.

Perhaps this is just me, but I can't see that undertaking is a big deal.

 

[mangaman]

What a delight to come home after a weekend away and find such a courteous, well informed and interesting discussion going on here. I applaud you all

I agree Cab - one suspects the cause is not difficult to pinpoint ie the judicious banning and fortunate enflouncement of certain one-track posters.

In my 2 years here and 3 years before that on cycling plus I've almost never contributed to the road safety / speed camera threads as they've always turned nasty in my 5 years experience.

This thread is living proof that certain single issue posters on fora can poison the atmosphere (I'm mentioning no names here Linf) and put people off posting, as they know it will end on page 3 in a circular bun-fight with 2 or 3 people slagging each other off and Room 101 written all over it.

 

[Norm]

Perhaps this is just me, but I can't see that undertaking is a big deal.

Indeed, it happens well enough in the US, but you need to expect it. If it puts a vehicle somewhere that there shouldn't be a vehicle, it causes problems.

Years on the motorbike have ingrained in me a mirror check and life saver whenever changing lanes, whether or not I "know" there shouldn't be anything there.

Ironically, those very same drivers who will cut left to undertake seem to also think that they are the only people who have the right to undertake, and are often caught out when someone is pulling a move on them as they glide across to the left without indicating.

...as they know it will end on page 3 in a circular bun-fight with 2 or 3 people slagging each other off and Room 101 written all over it.

**** off!

 

[mangaman]

**** off!

No you **** off

 

[Norm]

He told me to **** off.

Don't do that, you nasty man.



"How should we **** off, oh master?"

 

[Rhythm Thief]

You're both banned.

 

[Norm]

Well you can **** off as well, then.

I'm up for this...

 

[Norm]

Where were we? Oh, yes, speed cameras and undertakers.

 

[mangaman]

You're both banned.

Bugger - I'll rejoin in a cunning new way though, just you watch me.

Maybe as an 86 year old lady taking up cycling after a 74 year absence. I'll bombard Beginners with surreal questions about saddle heights and incontinence pads - that sort of thing.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Bugger - I'll rejoin in a cunning new way though, just you watch me.

Maybe as an 86 year old lady taking up cycling after a 74 year absence. I'll bombard Beginners with surreal questions about saddle heights and incontinence pads - that sort of thing.

I'm almost tempted to ban you just to see the resulting posts.

 

[thomas]

Variable speed limits seem to work on the M25, although I have noticed that, when the limits are reduced, there is a huge amount of under-taking, something which is pretty rare on most motorways now.

They had a bit about them on the local paper's website. Some whiny motorists fussing about them, but if putting variable speed limits, even low ones, means that there isn't stop start tail backs I think it's a really good idea.

Perhaps this is just me, but I can't see that undertaking is a big deal.

The problem is it puts people somewhere they're not expected. I'd check my blind spot before pulling back in a lane on a motorway, just to be safe, because of undertakers. However, I'm willing to bet some people don't (and probably haven't been using their mirrors before hand).

Like you, I don't think it's that big a deal and have done it, though it's something that in the UK should widely be avoided....middle lane hoggs should get back on the left

However, if you want to slow motorway traffic down then allow undertaking. Get rid of the slow, middle and fast lane as they appear now. I'm not saying it'd work, but if everyone was everywhere, could undertake, etc, you'd then get "slower" drivers in each lane, which would slow the speed down...especially as you get people doing 100+ in the outside lane. Much harder to do that if people doing the speed limit are in every lane.

That is the most pathetic reason for doing anything that I have ever read on this forum.

haha, yeah maybe. My point is that you need to be seen as being reasonable otherwise respect is lost and other problems are caused.

 

[GrasB]

Pricing, with the No's of vehicles involved, I reckon unit cost, per vehicle, could be around the £150 mark. I would allocate £50 million for the transmitter rollout.

Tried and tested - the specific design isn't tested and I've not claimed it is. The seperate technologies are tested, a speed limiter can be set electronically, via button, in a car. Are you hanging your 'untested' bogeyman on the lack of ability to transmit that signal remotely? The in car setup could even have a dual mode so, in case of localised transmitter failure, it then sets speed based on GPS data it has stored. Or are you going to tell me this is a way out whacky untested idea as well?

Okay, firstly you need a transmitter signal can tell the direction of a car & send it the correct signal or a system of cancelling which sends the same signal twice, but then how do you work out which limit you're going to? You've also got to work out a system that doesn't effect traffic at junctions where there's a speed limit change on a side road, where two roads are running parallel in close proximity, where you have a speed limit change on an over/under pass. Then you've got to work out how the car knows to drop back to your GPS, you start to need a signal say every mile & this is starting to get very complicated to install & maintain.

Falling back to GPS raises another issue, it isn't accurate & robust enough to start with, iirc the best the military got down to was 3m 95% of the time! 3M 100% of the time imo is the minimum positioning accuracy you need to run a system like this wholesale. The UK road system is complexes & has a lot of roads which run close together, you need to be able to differentiate between these two roads every single time

This means that there's a whole set of technologies that need to be designed, integrated together & then tested to make sure that it's robust! So yes your required technologies most definitely NOT tested! I don't even think that the required transmitter system is actually available.

Foreign vehicles - need the kit same as everyone else, we drive in France we need to buy a hi viz and red triangle and some spare bulbs(I haven't been for a while so it may be more/less now). Vehicles come here they need to buy an in car kit...simples.

With all due respect what a load of horse manure. A warning triangle &* a set of bulbs is something that really should be kept in the car in the UK (& you should also be doing a weekly at minimum bulb check!). The fact that in certain countries such a basic piece of equipment & consumable spares should be kept in the car makes a lot of sense. Asking people to fork out for a piece of equipment that costs £100s & is only useful in that country is something completely different.

It may be a poor idea but certainly not for the objections you put forward.

No it is because of the objections that were put forwards. You've thought up a crack pot idea, assumed that current said that current technologies are available, which I think you'll find actually aren't.

 

[GrasB]

You haven't offered any response to the question I've asked twice -what's the problem with just slowing down?

+1... what is the problem... you find it irritating but at the end of the day it's for safety reasons & in my mind that's a good enough reason.

 

[MacB]

Doesn't exist, crap idea, no testing done, might I refer the arguing pea brains to this:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7803997.stm

There's plenty more information around but don't let a bit of reading et in the way of your inate knowledge of the facts