Still confused about bike gps stuff..

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yello

Guest
Forget the GPS then btfb. Seriously, it really isn't worth the stress and anguish. You can tour perfectly adequately with maps. Besides, maps have a distinct advantage over GPS in that the batteries don't run out, they don't need satellites and you don't have to pfaff around plotting and loading files etc.

They're also much more fun, I think, to look at the end of the day when surveying your day's mileage and deciding on the next day's route. Maps also give you the perfect excuse for a rest - stopping at an intersection just to check where you are! Yes, GPS gadgets are fun and definitely useful, but hardly essential. They can also be frustrating, believe me!!

Besides, you can't really get lost in Europe as you're never very far from assistance or direction if it's needed.

So, forget the GPS and save the dosh for the bike.
 
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Bigtallfatbloke

Bigtallfatbloke

New Member
Both routes have merits...when I ride alone I think I would prefer the freedom and ease of the sat nav directions...i hate stopping at every tree to look at the maps especially if it's cold and wet.

...however I have just torn out about 50 pages of my road atlas maps and drawn a highlighted line through them to follow...doesnt look much like a gps though:biggrin:

Does anybody know if the Garmin units have a language switch option, you lnow like on a mobile phone? Sop if I bought a unit in Germany say, would I be able to set it so the unit displays instructions etc in English, not German??

If so I may delay the purchase until i get over there.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
I navigate through cities that are unavoidable using a map to give a rough direction, a compass and helpful locals. Last year I had a bloke who was shopping on a bike navigate me out of Verona amongst many other helpers. The map thing may slow you down a little bit but it's hassle free, doesn't need charging and you can always buy the next one en route and spend a while each evening planning the next day over a bottle of wine. I can't actually believe that the satnav could negotiate a city using alleyways, cyclepaths, pedestrian areas etc. But each to his own.
 

NickM

Veteran
rich p said:
I can't actually believe that the satnav could negotiate a city using alleyways, cyclepaths, pedestrian areas etc...

This time last week I went into Roeselare, Belgium, and out the other side by GPS. A town rather than a big city, I'll grant you, but it worked fine, I emerged on the right road, and I see no reason why the GPS wouldn't cope just as well in a major city.

Still, chacun a son gout (as they don't say in West Flanders :biggrin:)
 
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Bigtallfatbloke

Bigtallfatbloke

New Member
well i finally took the plunge and stopped farting around like an old Git...hope I took the right decision...guess i'll find out soon enough eh!?

This is what I just ordered:

http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/garmin-gpsmap-60csx-handheld-sat-nav-gps/10066/

£214

http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/products/details/garmin-city-navigator-european-maps/10578/

£67.99

http://www.mynewcheap.co.uk/product...nting-bracket-gpsmap-60c/1608/#specifications

£12.38

(with an extra wide bar option gizmo not listed on the site) £7.99

Shipping for friday delivery £5.95

Total £309.15



I went for the better unit because apparently it works better in built up areas and forests etc and has a bigger display (ish). I decided against the DVD maps and went for the SD cards maps because Garmin said I did not need the DVD maps because I could easily use google earth, map my ride etc and upload the file through the software I get with the 60CSX into the GPS and it will take that route and display it on the city europe map. The only real benefit in the DVD is if I have access to a PC without a web connection (unlikely). My plan is to load the route in stages. I will plan it out on mapmyride, save the GPX files onto a memory stick and take it with me on tour. Then when I need to upload a new route I can do so in a cybercafe...well thats the plan anyway.
The extra wide bike mount I orderd is not on their site, but I am promised it will fit oversized bars up to 35mm across.
To be honest the experience of buying this stuff has probably taken several months off my life expectancy...the dealer wasn't exactly 'customer focused' let's say....and garmin (although helpful when you can speak to them) are difficult to get through to.

Garmin said I would have a long 'learning curve' to get through when it arrives...hmm...sounds ominous, but I guess all good things come with those these days. I will keep you informed as to how it all works (assuming it actually does!)

Thanks again for all your help and patience.
Cheerz.;):smile:

p.s. this means the difference between a 928 and a via nirone in real terms...but hey time is a good healer right?
 

NickM

Veteran
Bigtallfatbloke said:
...My plan is to load the route in stages. I will plan it out on mapmyride, save the GPX files onto a memory stick and take it with me on tour. Then when I need to upload a new route I can do so in a cybercafe...well thats the plan anyway...
For this to work, I think you will need to check that the GPS is visible to Windows as a drive when plugged into a USB port. Otherwise, you would need Mapsource to be installed on the PC you were using to transfer files to the GPS, wouldn't you?

I have always used Mapsource or Tracklogs to transfer routes to my Legend Cx, so I'm no expert - no doubt one will be along shortly!
 
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Bigtallfatbloke

Bigtallfatbloke

New Member
I have bad feeling you are right...and this willall turn out to be a bloody expensive nightmare which end up in me using paper maps and following onion sellers on bikes across town
 

MockCyclist

Well-Known Member
No, it doesn't work like that.

Actually you can put the 60CSx in a mode where it appears as a drive letter but that isn't how you load routes. The tracklogs, not routes, are stored on the card and you just get them from the drive (sd card) when you want. The sd card needs sufficient space to load the map area that you want, but even that is done via MapSource, not by copying it to the sd card via Windows.

Routes are stored in its own memory. They are uploaded by the "send to Device" function via usb.

You can store 50 routes, but I *think* the 1000 waypoint limit is for all 50.

To create a route on tour you would really need your own pc with MapSource installed, but if you're getting the sd card mapping you would have to create the route using the basic Trip and Waypoint Manager, unless you have internet connection to use bikeroutetoaster.

If you just want to create a way through an unfamiliar city, though, you would just pick "find" on the gps and select some poi that was in your sights and ask for an on-road route to get you there. It works.

PS tracklogs is the Garmin term for the path you travelled, not to be confused with thesoftware package of the same name.
 
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Bigtallfatbloke

Bigtallfatbloke

New Member
..erm...ok...but being a nob much of that went over my head (sorry). So does it mean that I can save 50 routes on the gPS from my pc at home before I go? If I had another card could I take more routes and swap cards half way round the tour?

I wont have any access to a PC (other than a cyber cafe) .

1000 waypoints are nowhere near enough for this trip...hmm...maybe I should have stuck with paper afterall...I thought I could pre load/carry my entire route with me somehow having pre planned it at home before the off. For example her eis a summary of the route from friedrichshaffen to Basel from bikeroutetoaster:

Course Details
Track Points
1743

Distance
187.98
kms
Estimated Time
9:08:17
Ascent
1457
meters
Descent
1621
meters
Start Elevation
422
meters
Finish Elevation
258
meters
Minimum Elevation
248
meters
Maximum Elevation
465
meter

...and this is one of the shorter legs/routes.

looking at this it seems to me that this route alone is too big to fit into the Garmin...if that is the case then the unit i sall but useless to me except for the direction finder thing you mention above....which I could have got in a cheaper unit.

My wife has a basic tom tom sat nav for her car and she can navigate across all of europe with it and has done so. It doesnt require any of this uploading etc...the only thing is the battery life is only 5 hours ish...it's also cheaper than the garmin set up....I'm starting to think cyclists ar ebeing ripped off here....

Having to carry my own pc is never going to happen...perhaps Garmin should make this clear in their sales blurb....I feel conned.....anyway It will arrive tomorrow hopefully and maybe I will feel different when I get to play around with the unit....I will wait and see...I dont want to sound all neggy just yet...perhpas I just misunderstood something....but you know Garmin really need telling that their pre sales blurb and dealers are absolutly user unfriendly.
 

MockCyclist

Well-Known Member
Yes, you could save 50 routes to the gps but I think that would average out to 20 waypoints each which wouldn't be much of a route.

Were you about to say could you save another 50 to a second sd card? No, routes are stored in the internal memory of the 60CSx. Maps (and tracklogs - the record of where you actually went) are saved to the sd card.

I've saved about 20 routes to the unit for a short tour, though I did run against that 1000 waypoint limit.


Oh, you've finished your post now .....

Once you start to plan your routes on screen you will find that you can cut the waypoints back to a minimum and still get good directions.

You could use the unit just like a tom tom in the sense that you could arrive at a town, have a quick look at your large scale map to pick your next 50 miles, then just ask the gps to navigate you there. No route planning at all, and you do get a choice of route styles, fastest, shortest, etc.

Or, you ask it to find a campsite and it pops up with a list, nearest first, you just pick one and ask to navigate there.

Oh, you've edited your post again .....


Right. friedrichshaffen to Basel. Google maps reports 143km. Your scenic route is 188 km and 1743 points. I would guess that once you start using the gps you will learn how to cut right back on waypoints and still get good directions.

I'm looking at a 908km route downloaded of t'internet and it has 598 points. Zooming in, it looks to have plenty of waypoints. If I wanted to use the route I would divide it into 9 100km sections and follow each in turn.

PS
Google maps reports 177 km not 143 but it doesn't detract from what I say.

Are you using auto-routing in bikeroutetoaster? That will give you millions of waypoints because it follows the road precisely. Just click your own waypounts and join them up with straight lines.
 

NickM

Veteran
This bloody GPS terminology, and the lack of consistency in its use between one supplier of hardware or software and another, is what makes GPS so hard to understand - routes, tracks, tracklogs, trackpoints, waypoints... grrrrrr. But that is not entirely Garmin's fault.

Anyway, BTFB: how about letting the GPS work out its own route between specified start and end points, telling it to avoid main roads and to go via just enough specified points to take you the way you want to go? That should work, I reckon :ohmy:

edit: Ah, there you are - MockCyclist agrees with me :thumbsup:

edit2: GPS expert "frankly frankie" (over on yet another cycling forum - he is Francis Cooke, AUK's technical whizz) reckons that setting auto routing parameters to "Delivery Van" on the GPS produces better routes than the "Bicycle" setting
 
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Bigtallfatbloke

Bigtallfatbloke

New Member
Thanks...guess I'll get into the swing of it soon hopefully.



Or, you ask it to find a campsite and it pops up with a list, nearest first, you just pick one and ask to navigate there.

Does the unit/city europe maps have the campsite info already onboard or do i need to programme all that in?




That route to Basel I did this morning in biketoaster and i was deliberatly trying to minimise the waypoints...however this was the minimum I could get awy with without it automatically sending me off onto the major roads all the time. One thing I did notice was that the summary shows a dramatically increased number of waypoints to what I actually put in myself...whic was more in the region of about 20 max....I dont understand what happened there.
One thing I am going to do is take th epaper maps as well...at least until I can trust myself with this new toy!
Thanks for helping.

p.s one other question...you mention being able to download routes off the net which are already planned (by other cyclists I assume?) Is the a good place I can go to look/get those...particulary for Germany/ France?...might save me some work. Ta.
 

MockCyclist

Well-Known Member
I just did that route in bikeroutetoaster with auto-routing and got 1246 waypoints.

Turn off auto-routing, turn off Add Course Points. That's why you've got extra waypoints.

Campsite info, cashpoints, hotels, Macdonalds, Best Western, lots of other stuff, it's all part of your City Navigator.

Yes, definitely take a paper map as well.

I've used routes from here and they were superb, I barely referenced a map at all and almost every turn was dead right.

http://www.gpstracks.nl/

If you go to bikely or mapmyride, you can search for routes by name.
 

MockCyclist

Well-Known Member
Of course, if you can't actually read the language of the site and don't know the geographical areas it can be hard to know what to download.

I ended up downloading all of them for the area that I was touring and put them all in one Garmin file so that I could see exacly what routes were available on one map. All the route intersections were clearly visible. Then I cut and joined a big circular route that fitted with my plans. MapSource is excellent for that.
 
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