Stop / Start on Cars

[mjr]

It just doesn't seem possible that, for instance, you are stopped at roadworks and have to sit for 2-3 minutes or longer with your foot on the brake for the stop/start to work. Am I missing something or is this just incredibly stupid tech?
I am so amazed that I am going to spend some more time messing with the vehicle next time I have my hands on it to see if there is a more sensible permutation of conditions that will actually make the stop/start useable...….

Ask on an Audi forum? Or ask Audi on social media, even? It does sound incredibly rubbish as described.

 

[Tim Hall]

Ask on an Audi forum? Or ask Audi on social media, even? It does sound incredibly rubbish as described.

From the Owner's manual for the Audi A4:

"Vehicles with an automatic gearbox

Stop the vehicle and keep your foot on the brake pedal. The engine will switch off. The indicator lamp (A in a circle) will light up in the instrument cluster display, and (a similar symbol) will appear in the on-board computer.
The engine will start again automatically when you take your foot off the brake pedal. The indicator lamp will go out."

That is what we call rubbish.

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

There's nothing like the fun of being behind an Audi/BMW/Merc in a traffic jam on a dark winter night watching your retinas dissolve.
But then the xenon headlamp justifiers published an article saying xenon & HID only dazzled old people due to the frailty brought on with age, so perhaps it's the same for atomic brake lights too.

 

[I like Skol]

From the Owner's manual for the Audi A4:

"Vehicles with an automatic gearbox

Stop the vehicle and keep your foot on the brake pedal. The engine will switch off. The indicator lamp (A in a circle) will light up in the instrument cluster display, and (a similar symbol) will appear in the on-board computer.
The engine will start again automatically when you take your foot off the brake pedal. The indicator lamp will go out."

That is what we call rubbish.

I got the opportunity to play with Mrs Skol's car this morning as I drove it to the local Audi dealer for a recall job.

I did make one small mistake in my description. You don't have to dab the footbrake to release the parking brake. It will release the brake automatically as you drive away. I think my confusion arises from the fact it only does this when it wants to. If someone has opened a door to get out (say while waiting at the lights) then it doesn't release (In fact, it often applies the brake while you weren't looking, making you appear like an idiot, trying to drive away with the parking brake on). If you have moved into neutral then back into gear, I don't think it will release then either. Take off your seatbelt to remove a jumper because you are hot, computer says no. First start the car ready for a journey, no. In fact, the reasons and conditions are so varied that it makes it almost a guessing game and you simply cannot rely on the car to do what you want it to do. It is so bad that it is dangerous and when we first got the car the very same jumper removal situation resulted in us rolling backwards down a hill towards the following vehicles as we released the handbrake after being unable to restart or drive away (A combination of stop/start, hold assist and auto handbrake application all fighting against each other and us being naïve enough to think the car knew what it was doing!!!).

As an aside, I can confirm that the stop/start will only work while your foot remains firmly pressed on the foot brake. It is no use moving to neutral or applying the parking brake, the engine still restarts the moment the foot brake is released.... utter sh1te.

 

[Black Sheep]

I like the idea of stop/start, as a driver, as a cyclist and as a 'citizen of earth'

However, I notice on my commute that very few cars seem to have it. Is this because it's not as commonly fitted as I thought, or because people turn it off? Or is it because when it's chuffin' hot or chuffin' cold - which are the only two temperatures we've had this year - the car needs to keep the engine running for the climate control?

My own car doesn't have it, but I do tend to shut it off manually at traffic lights I know to have a long cycle.

our car has it, I rarely trigger it as the lights near us don't have a very long cycle on them so by the time it's stopped I'm usually starting it again moments later, also in stop start queueing I'm usually slipping the clutch every now and then to nudge forwards.

near where I work all the auto mercs, audis and BMW's seem to have it which is great, it allows me to get ahead of them from the lights on the motorbike

Aha - if it needs the handbrake to be on that would explain it. No-one around here appears to use the handbrake apart from to park.

handbrake not required on the Kia or Suzuki we've had with it, although if the car starts rolling (letting it roll down a slope to keep up with the slow queue) then it re-starts

 

[mjr]

[...] also in stop start queueing I'm usually slipping the clutch every now and then to nudge forwards.

Why don't you let a good gap open up and then drive on smoothly at a lower speed, aiming to catch the start-stop nobber ahead as they slip the clutch for the Nth time to rush forwards because they love premature clutch wear?

handbrake not required on the Kia or Suzuki we've had with it, although if the car starts rolling (letting it roll down a slope to keep up with the slow queue) then it re-starts

It's similar on Alfa-Romeo and Fiat - no handbrake required, but speed of 5mph will trigger the restart. One great thing about stop-start is that you only have to dip the clutch after stalling for the system to restart the engine for you. In general, I doubt it's hammering the battery on the current generation because their engines seem very lightweight anyway - engine braking is very weak.

 

[mjr]

There's nothing like the fun of being behind an Audi/BMW/Merc in a traffic jam on a dark winter night watching your retinas dissolve.
But then the xenon headlamp justifiers published an article saying xenon & HID only dazzled old people due to the frailty brought on with age, so perhaps it's the same for atomic brake lights too.

Solve the problem of Audi brake lights having to be on for stop-start to work by painting them black, or disconnecting them like the indicators come from the factory.</viz-top-tip>

 

[User269]

Flippin' 'eck, we'll be debating the value of indexed downtube shifters next.

Engine stop/start reduces emissions. It doesn't use more fuel to start again, it doesn't ruin you starter motor etc. etc. .............hey, it's 2018 y'know?

On mine, apply the handbrake, select neutral and it stops unless the engine's not warmed up or the battery's a little low. At this time of year that translates as; drive from home for 8 miles with the aircon, lights, & radio on, stop at the traffic lights, and it goes off. Aircon etc. all continue to run. It's never turned itself on again after a few minutes, although this is possible in theory. Depress the clutch and it starts again.

Just because my emissions are so low that I only pay £20 a year car tax doesn't mean I don't want to stop spewing noxious gases whenever possible. It might compensate for the idiots who sit at lights for minutes on end, engine running, foot on the brake & clutch, in gear, and wondering why they feel stressed out all the time.

 

[mjr]

Flippin' 'eck, we'll be debating the value of indexed downtube shifters next.

Oi! Downtube shifters make far more sense than buying a car with a useful feature like stop-start and then deliberately switching it off.

 

[Bazzer]

I got the opportunity to play with Mrs Skol's car this morning as I drove it to the local Audi dealer for a recall job.

I did make one small mistake in my description. You don't have to dab the footbrake to release the parking brake. It will release the brake automatically as you drive away. I think my confusion arises from the fact it only does this when it wants to. If someone has opened a door to get out (say while waiting at the lights) then it doesn't release (In fact, it often applies the brake while you weren't looking, making you appear like an idiot, trying to drive away with the parking brake on). If you have moved into neutral then back into gear, I don't think it will release then either. Take off your seatbelt to remove a jumper because you are hot, computer says no. First start the car ready for a journey, no. In fact, the reasons and conditions are so varied that it makes it almost a guessing game and you simply cannot rely on the car to do what you want it to do. It is so bad that it is dangerous and when we first got the car the very same jumper removal situation resulted in us rolling backwards down a hill towards the following vehicles as we released the handbrake after being unable to restart or drive away (A combination of stop/start, hold assist and auto handbrake application all fighting against each other and us being naïve enough to think the car knew what it was doing!!!).

As an aside, I can confirm that the stop/start will only work while your foot remains firmly pressed on the foot brake. It is no use moving to neutral or applying the parking brake, the engine still restarts the moment the foot brake is released.... utter sh1te.

According to Mrs B's manual, the engine stop/start is also engaged when her auto is put into park.
I discovered at the weekend that if you put it into park and get out of the car, i.e that unholy triumvirate of an engine running, removing your seat belt and opening a door, to say take stuff out of the boot at the end of a journey, (with the "hand" brake on), the engine turns itself off completely.

 

[Piemaster]

Just because my emissions are so low that I only pay £20 a year car tax doesn't mean I don't want to stop spewing noxious gases whenever possible. It might compensate for the idiots who sit at lights for minutes on end, engine running, foot on the brake & clutch, in gear, and wondering why they feel stressed out all the time.

My wifes car is £0/annum. Biggest decision was whether to go for 6 months or 12 at renewal.
I've had stop/start on hire cars and can't say it was an enjoyable experience. I reckon the whole thing is a bit of a bodge up and the real solution is hybrids or EV, either no engine at all or only starting up when you actually need it.

 

[NorthernDave]

The Citroen has it - the 1.6eHDi engine, officially classed as a 'micro hybrid'.

Must be in neutral, with foot off the clutch and the speed needs to be below 20kph*, but no need to have either the footbrake or handbrake applied.
Switches the climate control off, although the fan still works and it will restart when the clutch is depressed, or when it feels it needs to.

My Audi has it - but doesnt work with the Climate Control on. The handbrake doesnt need to be applied.

If i know i am going to be sat in a bit of a traffic for a little while, i will turn the A/C off, and let the Start/Stop take over.

In the current weather I do the opposite - switch the S/S off and keep the A/C on.
However, every ignition cycle resets the system, so you have to switch it off very journey, you can't switch it off and leave it off.

If I don't use the car for a while (a week or so), it might take a little while longer to start cutting in

My previous C3 had the same engine but without S/S and the effect on fuel consumption seems marginal in regular use.
Still get free road tax though!

* - so you could freewheel - not sure what @Drago or the Highway Code would make of that...

 

[I like Skol]

However, every ignition cycle resets the system, so you have to switch it off very journey, you can't switch it off and leave it off.

I have a magic gadget that lets me tinker with the settings on my Audi. My S/S now remembers the last setting from before an ignition off/on. I also flipped the button light so now when the light is lit it means S/S is active. Always seemed odd that the light on meant the system was off! I also took the liberty of turning off the annoying nanny beep that goes nuts if you dare to move the car without fastening your seatbelt [rebel]!

 

[Tailendman]

"Stationary idling is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988,"

The Act enforces rule 123 of the Highway Code, which states: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."

 

[Black Sheep]

Flippin' 'eck, we'll be debating the value of indexed downtube shifters next.

morally wrong and bizarre

friction shifter is the true way, I used to be able to knock my way through the gears with my knee while stood up sprinting it, each gear at a time, without stopping peddling.