Surgery you don't consent to

[byegad]

IIRC the only way surgery can be performed contrary to patient consent is if there is a psychiatric order (I know that's not the right term, anyone know it??) on the patient.* When you do sign a consent they can still do further work if what they find is life-threatening and urgent in which case the work is done in the patient's interest. Last time I signed a consent form it was for a vasectomy and as I was awake the surgeon said if they found anything they'd discuss it with me there and then. As nothing untoward turned up this did not happen.

* I can remember a patient deemed incapable of signing a consent form was sterilised against her will after such an order.

I had my then 13 year old son in A&E for a minor injury when a younger child was rushed in with his cheek cut wide open after falling onto broken glass (Set in the top of a wall.) He screamed the place down as they injected the wound with pain killer in several locations to enable stitching and the young lad then flatly refused to have the stitches done. The argument went on for several minutes until the doctor gave up and told mum they could not proceed any further as the pain killer was about to wear off and he would not be able to stitch it pain free. The doctor's parting shot after they'd bandaged the open wound was he'd be back, and they would then require his and a parent's written consent before they cleaned the wound and stitched it up, under general anaesthetic! My son, taking after his Dad I'm afraid loudly said:- 'What a stupid kid.' as they left the cubicle next to us. As we were next my son asked the Doctor why he hadn't just gone ahead when they had the wound numb, and he reluctantly told us it wasn't worth the risk of legal action to continue, but he had made Mum sign the notes saying the child had refused treatment!

 

[Markymark]

Bloody surgeons doing surgery to save people's lives.

Nobbers.

 

[classic33]

My advice, Classic, is to sign the form, have the procedure and stop worrying. I know there are lots of scare stories and the NHS is currently getting some bad press. In actual fact, it's a great service, 99.9% of the staff care and are well trained. I'm sure you'll get what's best for you and you'll be better for it.

Forget your past is a partial outcome, the rest is unknown, at this stage.

 

[classic33]

Have you talked this through with your GP, consultant, other health care professionals? What do they advise?

None as yet. Surgery was deemed to be the only option left, so one person decided to start the process.

 

[jefmcg]

I'd consult a lawyer, too. There is no point being in the right, if they perform the surgery anyway. If they really are planning to operate against your will, a competent lawyer should be able to get an injunction (or whatever)

 

[classic33]

I'd consult a lawyer, too. There is no point being in the right, if they perform the surgery anyway. If they really are planning to operate against your will, a competent lawyer should be able to get an injunction (or whatever)

Start doing that tomorrow.
I thought that after last year passed, the time I was told it'd be done by, I kinda believed the local hospital/trust in that it was never planned in the first place. Then two weeks ago the envelope containing the information, dropped through the letter box.
Now I'm living life on hold.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

@classic33 - I suggest that rather than brooding about this and posting on here, you take the simple step of speaking to your GP.

Or better still ring the hospital and ask to speak to your consultant's secretary.

 

[Sandra6]

Unless you turn up at the hospital, put on the gown and get into the bed they can't perform surgery on you that you don't want.

 

[classic33]

Consultant that referred me had the pre-op tests performed having stated what the tests were for & what that surgery would be.
Also where it would be done. To date the timetable has been kept to, pre-op wise. The only thing not done on the timetable given was the surgery. That was supposed to have been in December last year. Hence my relief when last year ended.
This surgery is supposed to be the last chance for me, all other routes having been unsucessful.
Proposed surgery is the removal of the hippocampus/hippacampus to bring the epilepsy under control.
Problems arise as the referring trust can find no copy of the referral being made. The only one on my records is to an out-patient clinic. The letter that came clearly states ward & upon checking its a specialist ward at a seperate hospital. Same trust, seperate hospital, and certainly not as an out-patient. Local hospital trust, yesterday said I'd do well to get legal help on this matter, if I'm not happy with things.

Now the local trust are getting panicky because the consultant has made no mention of this to them.

My brain may be far from perfect, but its got me this far in life. When surgery was mentioned that was said, to the consultant. Whose only response was I'd have no choice in the matter.

 

[vickster]

Can you get a second opinion from a consultant at another trust, or a tertiary centre where the top experts are?

(Currently in a hospital bed having consented to knee surgery this morning)

 

[classic33]

Can you get a second opinion from a consultant at another trust, or a tertiary centre where the top experts are?

(Currently in a hospital bed having consented to knee surgery this morning)

Not within the time remaining.

You cannot be operated on without your consent.

Instead of posting on here, speak to your GP or speak to the hospital.

You clearly need someone to settle what are, I'm afraid, irrational fears.

I used to believe that as well, along with a dr would never lie or knowingly mislead you over treatment.
Along with you'd never be given anything that is markef as dangerous to your health and that you can't be be given something without it being prescribed first or without it being recorded, somewhere!

Time has proved my belief in the above to be false.

 

[albion]

The hospital will need to know ASAP if you are not turning up.

The costs are already there so someone else should be able to have your place.

 

[potsy]

[QUOTE 3519011, member: 76"]Unless of course there is something you haven't told us![/QUOTE]
Strange thread, of course they can't make him have the surgery if he doesn't want it.

Think there is a lot more to it than the op is letting on about, which is his right of course.

 

[classic33]

[QUOTE 3519011, member: 76"]How do they propose to operate against your wishes? They are surely not going to send the Police round are they?

There are many many laws and regulations about gaining consent etc. If you want clarity, come along to the training session I am delivering tomorrow, to an audience of doctors, nurses, physios etc entitled "Safeguarding Adults at Risk- including aspects of consent and the Mental Capacity Act"

We will cover gaining consent, assessing a patients ability to consent, advance directives to refuse treatment, the role of the Independant Mental Capacity Advocate and just briefly touch on Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards.

Just sleep easy, they cannot do anything you don't want them to. Unless of course there is something you haven't told us![/QUOTE]
If I wish to stop the treatment I need to see a solicitor to get an Advanced Care Order. Request made by the hospital & only informed of that last night, by letter.
Pre-op tests have all been done, before referral. Also done as routine tests in the past, many times.

 

[midlife]

Consent is pretty straightforward as long as you have capacity and can give informed consent. You can sign all the forms you like but can say no at any time and it all stops. Children are somewhat different but again generally simple.

What is tricky is when a patient hasn't the capacity to give informed consent then a Court has to do it for them.

Are the hospital saying you lack capacity ?

Shaun