Surly Big Fat Dummy

[Andy in Germany]

Just looks like a gimmick built for the sake of building it. As far as I'm concerned anything with tyres that wide might as well have a 1 litre petrol engine shoved into the frame and be done with it. Then it would be a lot of fun! Can't see the attraction of riding a human-powered tank at all. The whole point of push bikes is they should be simple minimalist personal transport. Those things just look like cumbersome beasts that are slow, heavy and awkward to park and store. Might as well just use a van if you want to lug loads of crap from A to B and save the bike riding for journeys that are actually enjoyable. Where's the fun in being a human pack animal hauling a load of tools & stuff about? That's what internal combustion engines are for!

This may be a bit like drop handlebars vs. flats: some people get on better with one type of bike. For us as a family getting an Xtracycle was one of the best decisions we made. I fitted mine to my Raleigh bike which I liked very much and discovered I liked it even more as a result. I've never even considered going back to a normal bike: I use a normal as a commuter so the Xtracycle won't get nicked but always ride the Xtracycle for preference either for shopping or touring.

For us it was the answer to car avoidance and still being able to be spontaneous, for example yesterday Beautiful Daughter suddenly decided she wanted to go to a playground, so I plonked her on the Xtracycle and off we went, down into the valley and off to the next town but one, watching buzzards circle overhead, then up the hill out of the valley without really noticing it -while my friend riding with an MTB/Trailer was really struggling- and over to the playground. On Saturday it will be used to haul the bike frame for Elder Son's bike out of Stuttgart and up to our apartment. Next year I'll be touring on it again through south Germany. The beauty of it is there's little effort, little planning, and none of that stressful messing about with a car.

 

[simon.r]

First thing to say is that I’ve not ridden the Surly.

But, IME, having a lot of weight on the back of a bike and nothing on the front results in the handling becoming ‘squirmy’. Not a significant problem at low speed, but it does feel very odd, especially when speeds get higher (downhill)! Almost like a reverse tank-slapper. I can only imagine that putting the weight even further back would make this more pronounced.

I’ve been eyeing up proper cargo bikes for ages now and think something with most of the load out front is probably the way to go.

I’d definitely try it (loaded) before committing.

 

[Andy in Germany]

First thing to say is that I’ve not ridden the Surly.

But, IME, having a lot of weight on the back of a bike and nothing on the front results in the handling becoming ‘squirmy’. Not a significant problem at low speed, but it does feel very odd, especially when speeds get higher (downhill)! Almost like a reverse tank-slapper. I can only imagine that putting the weight even further back would make this more pronounced.

I’ve been eyeing up proper cargo bikes for ages now and think something with most of the load out front is probably the way to go.

I’d definitely try it (loaded) before committing.

The longer wheelbase compensates and removes the squirmyness. I've experienced that on a normal bike but not on my longtail: loaded the bike feels even more stable, not less.

[Edit: Lifting the front wheel while loaded is very weird though, because the weight is way back]

 

[humboldt]

Do you think you need the fat version? It looks cool but I think the normal Big Dummy seems to come out at about £700 or so cheaper and would probably be enough unless you're taking it to some pretty wild places.
I see a very cool green Big Dummy riding around Holloway Road sometimes with the bags removed and an absolutely HUGE basket attached to the back. I assume it's some delivery rider because they sometimes leave it propped on the kickstand with just the front wheel locked to the frame as if they've hopped off to make a drop-off; it makes me super nervous.

 

[Cycleops]

Do you think you need the fat version? It looks cool but I think the normal Big Dummy seems to come out at about £700 or so cheaper and would probably be enough unless you're taking it to some pretty wild places.

Would have thought it was the other way around, lugging something as big and cumbersome around 'wild places' would be a real PITA.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

First thing to say is that I’ve not ridden the Surly.

But, IME, having a lot of weight on the back of a bike and nothing on the front results in the handling becoming ‘squirmy’. Not a significant problem at low speed, but it does feel very odd, especially when speeds get higher (downhill)! Almost like a reverse tank-slapper. I can only imagine that putting the weight even further back would make this more pronounced.

I’ve been eyeing up proper cargo bikes for ages now and think something with most of the load out front is probably the way to go.

I’d definitely try it (loaded) before committing.

It’s great you are thinking about it. Surly are no fools though when it comes to design. Crazy, but they are not fools. I assure you as a a Big Dummy owner with over 5000 km on the clock, carrying absurd loads including my 25kg daughter at over 50 kph every day, I assure you there are no handling anomalies.

You may now sleep at night. Your worries are over.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

Not sue why but one thing just occurred to me: Big Fat tyres are not going to be easy to fit mudguards for and will throw up a lot of crud.

This isn't an automatic problem for everyone, but worth being aware of it...

Good thinking 99. I think any genuine phat bike owner probably isn’t worried about mud. But from owning a Big Dummy, it is the passenger who cops the brunt of the spray. Owning an original Dummy means you can fit SKS mudguards and run 2.3” balloons, which preserves the bike in all the right places. Without them and flaps, the BB, front chainrings and where the frame meets the cargo chassis gets hammered more than a standard bike. Given that the chain is a double, you want to stay clean. Maintenance of the drive train is a lot more of a chore than a normal bike. Removing the rear wheel is a PITA.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

Do you think you need the fat version? It looks cool but I think the normal Big Dummy seems to come out at about £700 or so cheaper and would probably be enough unless you're taking it to some pretty wild places.
I see a very cool green Big Dummy riding around Holloway Road sometimes with the bags removed and an absolutely HUGE basket attached to the back. I assume it's some delivery rider because they sometimes leave it propped on the kickstand with just the front wheel locked to the frame as if they've hopped off to make a drop-off; it makes me super nervous.

Hah! That’s the other great thing about Surly: Their colour pallet is extraordinary and they are always pushing the boundaries. That green is called ‘Fire Ant Green’. Love it.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

@Heltor Chasca That's an impressive amount of load lugging.

@Andy in Germany You mention Xtracycle. The regular big dummy is built to the same standards so all the accessories fit, but because the fat version has a wider deck to cope with the massive tyres, a lot of the Xtracycle stuff isn't compatible. Might be something for me to bear in mind.

This is a very valid point. I have the Xtracycle Wideloders and the double kickstand. The latter has been a godsend. You can be fully loaded with tents or general ballast or be sorting kids out on the back and be confident the bike won’t topple. This is NOT the case with the little, single kickstand supplied as standard.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I’ve been eyeing up proper cargo bikes for ages now and think something with most of the load out front is probably the way to go.

There's certainly a lot to say for having the load out front as with a Bakfiets, not least that I can keep an eye on it and make sure nothing is falling off:

I can also allow stuff to hang over the front of the bike because I can see where it is going:

And if I'm carrying high value stuff like an exam project, I don't want to rely on straps:

Also, it can be a shop:

Finally, I having kids at the front is a great advantage:

On the other hand the Bakfiets is heavy, and slow, although mine is very much Old School Amsterdam so it is heavier than most new ones And it's not great offroad so I have to be more careful where I take it. You can ride it for a longer distance (I rode on mine from Amsterdam) but compared to an Xtracycle it's more of a chore and not as much fun. Also maintenance is not so easy:

So for longer or spontaneous rides it's the Xtracycle every time.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

There's certainly a lot to say for having the load out front as with a Bakfiets, not least that I can keep an eye on it and make sure nothing is falling off:

View attachment 439586

I can also allow stuff to hang over the front of the bike because I can see where it is going:

View attachment 439587

And if I'm carrying high value stuff like an exam project, I don't want to rely on straps:

View attachment 439588

Also, it can be a shop:

View attachment 439589

Finally, I having kids at the front is a great advantage:

View attachment 439590

On the other hand the Bakfiets is heavy, and slow, although mine is very much Old School Amsterdam so it is heavier than most new ones And it's not great offroad so I have to be more careful where I take it. You can ride it for a longer distance (I rode on mine from Amsterdam) but compared to an Xtracycle it's more of a chore and not as much fun. Also maintenance is not so easy:

View attachment 439591

So for longer or spontaneous rides it's the Xtracycle every time.

Phoar!

Now there’s a case for N+1 Cargo Bikes.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

I will just say that owning a Surly Big Dummy will almost certainly slot you into a certain pigeon hole. Regardless of bigotry, it isn’t a bad place to be. You just need to spend some time on YouTube to get what I mean.

It is likely you’ll have a slightly alternative take on life; an inappropriate sense of humour in times of adversity; have more facial hair that the average; sport a less than aerodynamic hairstyle; own at least one pair of purple underpants; know how to light a marshmallow fire under a waterfall; possess the ability to knit jumpers from crow milk; feel on the periphery of society in Tesco; get angry when parents on the school run leave their engines idling; wonder when cars were a thing anyway; still wear flip-flops in winter; get asked, ‘Are you selling mate?’ by feral teenage children and possibly know what soap on a rope is, but not actually own one.

 

[Andy in Germany]

How dare you sirrah:

I'll have you know that I neither have purple underpants or wear flipflops.

 

[tom73]

That maybe so but it look's one big lump of fun on two wheels.

 

[winjim]

Just looks like a gimmick built for the sake of building it. As far as I'm concerned anything with tyres that wide might as well have a 1 litre petrol engine shoved into the frame and be done with it. Then it would be a lot of fun! Can't see the attraction of riding a human-powered tank at all. The whole point of push bikes is they should be simple minimalist personal transport. Those things just look like cumbersome beasts that are slow, heavy and awkward to park and store. Might as well just use a van if you want to lug loads of crap from A to B and save the bike riding for journeys that are actually enjoyable. Where's the fun in being a human pack animal hauling a load of tools & stuff about? That's what internal combustion engines are for!

When the going gets tough, the tough hire a van? You're partly correct in that it was designed and built as a gimmick, just because they could. Surly admit that in the product video above. As for 'the whole point of push bikes', that's different things to different people. And what's not fun about a human powered tank?

Do you think you need the fat version? It looks cool but I think the normal Big Dummy seems to come out at about £700 or so cheaper and would probably be enough unless you're taking it to some pretty wild places.

Well, need is a very strong word. I want something I can take my daughter out on, and I want something for off road excursions. If I don't get the BFD, I'll probably get another plus or fat bike like a Troll or ECR rather than a regular BD. I took her out on the Pugsley and it was great. Slow and peculiar to handle in the beginning but I soon got used to it, and it's just great off road. It just climbs right over anything in front of it, you hardly need to think about what's in front of you. Unneccessary if it was just me but great with a kid on the back. It really is like riding a tank, you point it vaguely in the direction you want to go and just pedal. If I get the BFD, she can transition from the child seat to the deck and we can carry on, otherwise she'll outgrow it and I'm not sure what we'd do next.