Take command of the road ?

[Scaleyback]

Recently, while walking my dog I saw a cycle instructor with a group of primary school children. I choose a quiet spot and watched for a couple of minutes.
He was teaching them bike placement on the road and it was very noticeable how he was telling them to 'take command of the road' He was placing the demo bike
in the middle of the lane, not a suggestion of one third in from the kerb.
Now as an experienced rider, I'm 74 I know this is the recommended way to ride but I do find it difficult to maintain this stance, especially on certain fast wider
single carriageway roads. I find myself getting as far over as I can while staying clear of tarmac edges and drains etc.
I have ridden my least favourite 'fast single carriageway road' a few times recently and have steadfastly ridden further toward the centre of the carriageway.
I have to say, not an enjoyable experience ! the vast majority of drivers react accordingly and move onto the opposite carriageway and leave the required min of 1.5m.
However, I have noticed some drivers who seeing my position, it's a long straight road, accelerate and 'nip in' before the traffic coming in the opposite direction closes the gap and makes it impossible. I find this 'gunning' of the engine behind me a little unnerving. Maybe it's me ? certainly I am more circumspect these days than i was even 5 years ago. My days of falling of and 'bouncing' are past sadly I will 'break' now.
I am interested in your thoughts.

 

[Drago]

I try not to watch the Bikeabikity lot as they go round the village every year, its cringeworthy. All well and good telling them to take command of the lane when they have given them faulty advice about getting going in the first place...

I refused permission for Mini D to do it and trained her and one of her friends myself to do it properly.

 

[T4tomo]

I am interested in your thoughts.

One rules does not fit all, which is why its very difficult to "teach" anyone in a day or two.
common sense (which some people have in short supply when driving and cycling) says a mixture of defence, safety and courtesy works best.

obviously don't ride through the crap, take primary when encouraging an overtake would be dangerous, but help drivers overtake where its safe and clear. If its an urban dual carriage way take a whole lane , side by side if two of you, if you are slogging up a long hill on a narrow lane, pull into a gateway to let a grateful motorist past, rather than build their rage over 2 miles just because you can.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I've always felt that an active taking command strategy requires a lot of judgment, otherwise there is potential for it to increase rather than reduce danger. For example almost but not quite closing a narrow road is not good. Might it be better for young children to adopt a slightly more passive strategy (within reason)?

 

[Sharky]

My days of falling of and 'bouncing' are past sadly I will 'break' now.

I'm a member of this club.

 

[Alex321]

. Maybe it's me ? certainly I am more circumspect these days than i was even 5 years ago. My days of falling of and 'bouncing' are past sadly I will 'break' now.
I am interested in your thoughts.

I'm a few years behind you (at 62), but heading that way. I still sort of bounce, but the resulting cuts & bruises definitely take longer to heal, so I becoming much more aware of not wanting to come off.

But as others have said, it is all about context. There are places you definitely don't want to be encouraging overtakes, while there are others it is better to try not to unnecessarily annoy other road users.

I think I am quite lucky, riding around the lanes in the Vale of Glamorgan, that almost all drivers round here seem to be pretty good around cyclists.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Somewhere in the highway code it says that slower traffic should stay as far left as if reasonable to allow faster traffic to pass
e.g. tractors, people towing a caravan up a hill with a 2CV - and cyclists

the key is, of course, "reasonable". There are a few places around here that I move to my right to prevent an approaching car trying to overtake just before a traffic island.
There are also places where the road is in very good condition - plus no other hazards such as overhanging branches - that I basically ride between the double yellow lines on the side of the road. This allows approaching traffic to pass with minimum effort.
It all depends on the conditions - and a lot of that is down to the judgement of the rider.
Other traffic really needs to trust the judgement of the cyclist as car drivers really don't get the same impression of the state of the side of the road and the approaching hazards.

 

[cougie uk]

Definitely don't be over as far left as you can - that definitely encourages dangerous overtaking and makes you less visible.

1/3 to 1/2 seems about right but it depends on the circumstances.

I've seen seemingly otherwise competent cyclists riding in the gutter and I fear for their longevity.

 

[MichaelW2]

Experienced cyclists use the primary and secondary positions. Primary is taking the whole lane, secondary is to the side but not too much. As a rule of thumb, passing cars leave you the same clearance you leave to the curb.
You need judgement to determine where the 1ry and 2ry positions are when to use them.

Im not sure I would teach 1ry position as default to children.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Definitely don't be over as far left as you can - that definitely encourages dangerous overtaking and makes you less visible.

1/3 to 1/2 seems about right but it depends on the circumstances.

I've seen seemingly otherwise competent cyclists riding in the gutter and I fear for their longevity.

Depends on the circumstances - the road I was thinking of - and was riding on yesterday - is a wide main road with a wide pavement. The road surface is in very good condition right up to the kerb. A cyclist is as visible as ever.
hence I judge that I can ride as far left as the gap between the yellow lines
Other roads I wouldn;t go within a foot of the lines

I have noticed that some motorists have appeared to be a bit annoyed at my riding well away from the kerb - because their viewpoint has missed the fact that there is a hedge along the side of the road (no pavement) and at points the branches overhang
As I said - the drivers viewpoint is often very different to that of a cyclist

 

[MontyVeda]

What we currently have is loads of drivers who seem to think Why are they in the middle of the road? Get out of 'my' road!

In twenty years time, many of these kids will be driving and hopefully understand why sometimes, cyclists take command of the road and don't see us as intruders on 'their' road.

 

[MichaelW2]

Depends on the circumstances - the road I was thinking of - and was riding on yesterday - is a wide main road with a wide pavement. The road surface is in very good condition right up to the kerb. A cyclist is as visible as ever.
hence I judge that I can ride as far left as the gap between the yellow lines
Other roads I wouldn;t go within a foot of the lines

I have noticed that some motorists have appeared to be a bit annoyed at my riding well away from the kerb - because their viewpoint has missed the fact that there is a hedge along the side of the road (no pavement) and at points the branches overhang
As I said - the drivers viewpoint is often very different to that of a cyclist

On a long straight road with hedge, I had some pothole dodging to do then found myself riding 6" from the grassy bank. A car was about 400m behind me. I executed a change of track to 2ry position. Obviously I had to swing out to 1ry to get into 2ry.
The overtook me a good 5 seconds later hooting like crazy.

Most drivers dont understand riding position but instinctively give more clearance to wider riders.

 

[Fram]

Before recent resurfacing work was completed, I regularly crossed into the oncoming traffic "lane" to avoid potholes on this local road. Don't know what that position is called (kamikaze?) but it's not to be recommended, particularly as this A road was statistically the most dangerous in the UK some years ago. At least the rough surface kept traffic speeds down for a while. Negotiating land for a shared path is not straightforward. Safe routes to school? LOL.

 

[Scaleyback]

Thanks for all the comments, lots of sensible replies.
Where I position myself on the road does depend on the road and my experience of a particular road. It's pretty rural around here and I don't ride many busy roads. I guess this is part of my problem with this one road I referred to earlier. Tractors and sheep on the back roads are familiar sights. I will also stop and pull over to let vehicles pass on narrow roads, I see no justification for holding people up, I am cycling for pleasure not to get to a certain place before a certain time.
I met these recently on a quiet back road !
Once upon a time on a quiet road

 

[GeekDadZoid]

I usually ride at about the same distance from the kerb as my nearside wheels would be if I was driving. Keeps me out of the muck and in a position to move either way if road surface dictates.