Team BKool CycleChat

[bridgy]

Paul fairly kicked my 4rse down that hill so I'm wondering just how much weight he put on this summer. Too many cakes and beers I would think.

Ha! Well even if that's true (it might be - I haven't weighed myself for a while to be honest!) my Bkool weight hasn't changed and is only a kilo more than yours Bill! I guess I could have taken that time on the climbs at the start, but looking at the rides, I did put a few more digs in on the long descent to try and get my speed up.

Would be interested to see the splits of our times on the uphill start and the downhill finish

 

[bridgy]

With regards the discussion about Bkool Pro on Zwift, I've just compared a friend's recent real world rides with power meter, and ride last night on Zwift using a Bkool Pro and they are very similar:

Real world ride with PM:
30.5 miles / 863ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 35 mins
Ave HR: 152bpm
Ave weighted power: 218 watts

Zwift ride on Bkool Pro & no PM:
25.7 miles / 433ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 11 mins
Ave HR: 157bpm
Ave weighted power: 215 watts

 

[BILL S]

Ha! Well even if that's true (it might be - I haven't weighed myself for a while to be honest!) my Bkool weight hasn't changed and is only a kilo more than yours Bill! I guess I could have taken that time on the climbs at the start, but looking at the rides, I did put a few more digs in on the long descent to try and get my speed up.

Would be interested to see the splits of our times on the uphill start and the downhill finish

You pushed harder on the pedals for longer Paul. Simple as that. I did a little free wheeling at anything -8% or less and was watching the speedometer more than the power output. Much harder than I was expecting but hopefully the other stages won't have much of an uphill. Looking forward to repeating tomorrow to try and get a better time.

 

[bridgy]

You pushed harder on the pedals for longer Paul. Simple as that. I did a little free wheeling at anything -8% or less and was watching the speedometer more than the power output. Much harder than I was expecting but hopefully the other stages won't have much of an uphill. Looking forward to repeating tomorrow to try and get a better time.

I've made a Strava segment for just the downhill part. I was only 23 seconds quicker than you on the downhill despite my efforts. Probably all down to the extra kilo - I needn't have bothered trying! So I must have taken 2 minutes on the opening climbs. Jacob was over 2 minutes quicker down the hill than me (he's 18 kgs heavier) but only a minute and a half quicker overall, so I must have beaten him up the hills too - that would have been a bit depressing seeing him catch and whizz past me on the descent had we been doing it live!

So the heavier riders can just sit back and enjoy catching the lighter riders on the descent - as long as you've done enough on the opening climbs to minimise the gap when the downhill starts properly....should be interesting

 

[CXRAndy]

With regards the discussion about Bkool Pro on Zwift, I've just compared a friend's recent real world rides with power meter, and ride last night on Zwift using a Bkool Pro and they are very similar:

Real world ride with PM:
30.5 miles / 863ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 35 mins
Ave HR: 152bpm
Ave weighted power: 218 watts

Zwift ride on Bkool Pro & no PM:
25.7 miles / 433ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 11 mins
Ave HR: 157bpm
Ave weighted power: 215 watts

Get him to reload the ride into Bkool from Zwift and ride with same effort

 

[bridgy]

Get him to reload the ride into Bkool from Zwift and ride with same effort

I don't doubt he'd go quicker in Bkool

 

[Whorty]

That's sounds right. My experience was that as Cadence dropped the bkool pro produced similar power output to the NEO. This meant it was closer to the neo going up anything over 4%( once initial Cadence/momentum from flat to incline had fizzled out )and almost identical on long inclines above 4%. I wonder if this would be the case with a stronger rider spinning rather than grinding up such inclines.
Don't forget in Zwift if you set the trainer "difficulty " at 50% you spin more for same power output/speed and it might mean that the way bkool power output is interpreted is further exaggerated? Whorty- you at 50 or 100% if less than 100 perhaps but it at 100?

Set at 100%.

 

[CXRAndy]

I don't doubt he'd go quicker in Bkool

I suspect he will. My average difference between rides from bkool pro to Kickr was 1.5-2 mph for similar efforts. I could go round the velodrome at over 30 mph on a Bkool pro unit but struggled to get 28mph on the Kickr. Ignoring the watts difference which were circa 50 Watts my effort was based on going pretty much flat out on each occasion

He needs to ride it without a PM.


Edit you can't use a a separate PM on Bkool so it's ok.

 

[bridgy]

I suspect he will. My average difference between rides from bkool pro to Kickr was 1.5-2 mph for similar efforts. I could go round the velodrome at over 30 mph on a Bkool pro unit but struggled to get 28mph on the Kickr. Ignoring the watts difference which were circa 50 Watts my effort was based on going pretty much flat out on each occasion

He needs to ride it without a PM.


Edit you can use a a separate PM on Bkool so it's ok.

Not sure what you mean about riding it without a PM Andy? Only the outdoor ride was with a PM, the ride on Zwift was just the Bkool pro reported watts, which in this case look pretty accurate and certainly not over-stated

 

[CXRAndy]

Not sure what you mean about riding it without a PM Andy? Only the outdoor ride was with a PM, the ride on Zwift was just the Bkool pro reported watts, which in this case look pretty accurate and certainly not over-stated

Id forgotten you can't add a separate PM to Bkool. I meant to say can't.

Bkool units seem to function normally sometimes on Zwift, like Bob said, a power reset usually sorted it out, but it is hit and miss. Carl had a storming ride last time on Zwift being promoted well into Cat B for his result. Even Carl admits he was able to hit 450Watts quite easily. We all know 450W is not a level of power easily attained or sustained.

 

[bridgy]

Id forgotten you can't add a separate PM to Bkool. I meant to say can't.

Bkool units seem to function normally sometimes on Zwift, like Bob said, a power reset usually sorted it out, but it is hit and miss. Carl had a storming ride last time on Zwift being promoted well into Cat B for his result. Even Carl admits he was able to hit 450Watts quite easily. We all know 450W is not a level of power easily attained or sustained.

Yeah I totally agree - sometimes accurate, sometimes not. Or maybe it varies from one trainer to another, I don't know

(Edited as I re-read what Andy said!)

 

[bobinski]

With regards the discussion about Bkool Pro on Zwift, I've just compared a friend's recent real world rides with power meter, and ride last night on Zwift using a Bkool Pro and they are very similar:

Real world ride with PM:
30.5 miles / 863ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 35 mins
Ave HR: 152bpm
Ave weighted power: 218 watts

Zwift ride on Bkool Pro & no PM:
25.7 miles / 433ft elevation
Time: 1 hour 11 mins
Ave HR: 157bpm
Ave weighted power: 215 watts

What is his weight?
It would be interesting to see what happens if he rides to that average power in Zwift using his pm. Can you share the zwift ride in so we can compare with ours?

My most recent similar ride but with 3 blocks of 5 mins at 250w-278w. Some of it spent in the pack though always at the front but the endurance bits largely on my own.
25.4mi

• 1:00:27

• 486ft 215W

• 720kJ

Avg MaxSpeed 25.2mi/h 35.8mi/h
Heart Rate 146bpm 172bpm
Cadence 90 132
Power 199W 365W
Calories 803
Elapsed Time 1:00:27

The only conclusion i draw from all this discussion and anecdote is that the Pro gives less of an advantage in zwift than in bsim, that occasionally the advantage can be quite significant BUT it is variable, possibly unit to unit, dependent on which way the wind is blowing, and is impossible to replicate. It is what it is. Any advantage though should not prevent any frustrated bsim users joining us over on the dark side where the attractions continue to grow. Zwift isn't perfect and in no way will it ever fully replicate the small group banter and competition here but there is fun, competition and banter to be had. And i for one wont ever, as a NEO owner, EVER wind up a bkool pro user and say, well you only beat me 'coz you had an advantage...honest, Guvnor Just ask Whorty

 

[bridgy]

What is his weight?
It would be interesting to see what happens if he rides to that average power in Zwift using his pm. Can you share the zwift ride in so we can compare with ours?

My most recent similar ride but with 3 blocks of 5 mins at 250w-278w. Some of it spent in the pack though always at the front but the endurance bits largely on my own.
25.4mi

• 1:00:27

• 486ft 215W

• 720kJ

Avg MaxSpeed 25.2mi/h 35.8mi/h
Heart Rate 146bpm 172bpm
Cadence 90 132
Power 199W 365W
Calories 803
Elapsed Time 1:00:27

The only conclusion i draw from all this discussion and anecdote is that the Pro gives less of an advantage in zwift than in bsim, that occasionally the advantage can be quite significant BUT it is variable, possibly unit to unit, dependent on which way the wind is blowing, and is impossible to replicate. It is what it is. Any advantage though should not prevent any frustrated bsim users joining us over on the dark side where the attractions continue to grow. Zwift isn't perfect and in no way will it ever fully replicate the small group banter and competition here but there is fun, competition and banter to be had. And i for one wont ever, as a NEO owner, EVER wind up a bkool pro user and say, well you only beat me 'coz you had an advantage...honest, Guvnor Just ask Whorty

Hmmm, if he rode that power in Zwift using a PM surely the speed would be the same or very similar by definition? Because the reported watts for the Bkool is based on the speed not the other way round - the problems come when the speed itself is too high (probably due to not applying enough resistance), but the reported watts are probably quite accurate if the resistance - and therefore the speed - is what it should be.

He's not on here and his Strava account is private so I don't think it right to link to his ride on here.

I draw the same conclusion Bob!

P.S. 81kg

 

[bobinski]

Kipsters Zwift ride yesterday on a Kickr snap:
22.0mi

• 1:00:25

• 348ft

219W

• 719kJ

Avg Max
Speed 21.9mi/h 33.6mi/h
Heart Rate 137bpm 182bpm
Cadence 82 103
Power 198W 723W
Calories 802
Elapsed Time 1:00:25

 

[kipster]

Kipsters Zwift ride yesterday on a Kickr snap:
22.0mi

• 1:00:25

• 348ft

219W

• 719kJ

Avg Max
Speed 21.9mi/h 33.6mi/h
Heart Rate 137bpm 182bpm
Cadence 82 103
Power 198W 723W
Calories 802
Elapsed Time 1:00:25

That was a ride of two halfs, the first was trying to stay in the group and not surge off the front, which I mostly failed at. I was playing with my phone trying to give ‘ride ons’ and when I looked up I was out front by quite a way, keeping power at about 140w-150w. After about 25 minutes of faffing around I could see Bob was only 100m ahead so went off to catch him, from there the power was consistently higher (250w+), with a couple of sprints (700w) and then trying to battle with someone clearly stronger than me for the last few minutes (450w ish), before settling into a cool down at 180w.