Team BKool CycleChat

[bridgy]

Bkool trainers adjust the speed as the incline changes to simulate inertia, such as when going from a steep decline to an incline the speed falls away gradually rather than immediately adjusting to the new gradient. This simulates real world inertia, which will carry you some short way up an incline faster than you would otherwise pedal.

It seems that other trainer users are finally going to have a level playing field in this regard, possibly because of the fuss made here!

For those of you who haven't updated the simulator yet (or didn't read the intro) here is what it says about the new version.



I like the free spectator mode (as I'm not currently riding but I can hopefully watch you guys having fun).
Edit: Just tried this out, and of course it is limited to the 2D and map modes so not quite as nice as it seems. I would think allowing spectators to watch in 3D would make sense even if you are not a premium member, as it would show you how nice it is and encourage you to upgrade to premium to be able to do your own rides in 3D? I can't see that they would lose any premium subscribers and may gain more as a result.

I also love the comment "we have decided that users without a Bkool Trainer can also enjoy", especially the "we have decided" bit. Pretty much confirms the comments here that there was no real reason to exclude the non Bkool trainers from inertia and gravity assist.

Still not 100% clear from the comment "The inertia when starting a climb or descent, and the speed that it generates" that this means non Bkool trainers will simulate free-wheeling down a slope (it may just mean the initial inertia), so I guess I'll have to try it out to confirm.

Geoff

There was a discussion a while ago here about how a more level playing field between those on different trainers could be achieved - maybe by adjusting the times by some formula. I think it ended up sounding too complex to reconcile both the disadvantage non Bkool trainers got on the descents AND the advantage some with lower max resistance get on the climbs. If this update does solve the descending issue then maybe it will make it easier/possible to come up with a formula to account for just any climbing differences?

 

[bridgy]

Still, like I said before - Bkool doing an update at official Live Chaingang Ride time with no advance notice?!! Don't they know who we are??

 

[Bonno]

Please take away the bike he was using tonight. Maybe give him a nice beach cruiser.

Good idea Randy, but next time I think i'll take the fuse out of the fan, see how he gets on without it

 

[Baldo Mero]

Still not 100% clear from the comment "The inertia when starting a climb or descent, and the speed that it generates" that this means non Bkool trainers will simulate free-wheeling down a slope (it may just mean the initial inertia), so I guess I'll have to try it out to confirm.

Geoff

Not clear at all, and very skeptic. ON yesterday's ride I did not notice anything significant with my vortex. Maybe the speed was a little higher than usual in the first slope, i reached 53kmh which is my record in Bsim. But this was the only decent (long enough) descent in the ride, and right at the start, which I took full of energy. It is still far from your usual down speeds. In the rest of the ride I felt it as always, at least no significant changes. Judging by mi final position, nothing has changed as I made 3.45 W/kg and I am 10th, above me I have riders with much less W/kg and not too different average absolute W. So in my opinion nothing has changed in terms of levelling the differences between trainers.

 

[Baldo Mero]

I notice the new simulator has a help screen for the key shortcuts available:

View attachment 116692

I have seen that during the warmups from the very beginning of times

 

[bridgy]

Not clear at all, and very skeptic. ON yesterday's ride I did not notice anything significant with my vortex. Maybe the speed was a little higher than usual in the first slope, i reached 53kmh which is my record in Bsim. But this was the only decent (long enough) descent in the ride, and right at the start, which I took full of energy. It is still far from your usual down speeds. In the rest of the ride I felt it as always, at least no significant changes. Judging by mi final position, nothing has changed as I made 3.45 W/kg and I am 10th, above me I have riders with much less W/kg and not too different average absolute W. So in my opinion nothing has changed in terms of levelling the differences between trainers.

Baldo - I don't know what it is /has been like on the vortex but on my Bkool Pro I find the assisted downhill speeds only really kick in on a steep descent (-3.5% or more roughly). When the speed gets to a certain level (which is not always straight away) it goes blue and at this point you can back right off and as long as you're still going downhill at the same gradient or more, your speed continues to rise and stays blue (until the gradient changes to a less steep descent). Did you experience anything like this on your ride?

 

[Monte]

There was a discussion a while ago here about how a more level playing field between those on different trainers could be achieved - maybe by adjusting the times by some formula. I think it ended up sounding too complex to reconcile both the disadvantage non Bkool trainers got on the descents AND the advantage some with lower max resistance get on the climbs. If this update does solve the descending issue then maybe it will make it easier/possible to come up with a formula to account for just any climbing differences?

I hope the update also makes other trainers a level playing field going uphill... In particular Tacx Vortex users that go uphill very fast with very low wattage. #justsaying

 

[Baldo Mero]

Baldo - I don't know what it is /has been like on the vortex but on my Bkool Pro I find the assisted downhill speeds only really kick in on a steep descent (-3.5% or more roughly). When the speed gets to a certain level (which is not always straight away) it goes blue and at this point you can back right off and as long as you're still going downhill at the same gradient or more, your speed continues to rise and stays blue (until the gradient changes to a less steep descent). Did you experience anything like this on your ride?

No, I didn't. However the ride had very short slopes, no steep descents except the start (it was -6%). I could have overlooked the blue numbers though, will check more carefully.

 

[bridgy]

I hope the update also makes other trainers a level playing field going uphill... In particular Tacx Vortex users that go uphill very fast with very low wattage. #justsaying

Not sure that it could though if it's a limitation of the resistance on the trainers themselves?

 

[RickB]

Not sure that it could though if it's a limitation of the resistance on the trainers themselves?

They really do need to start taking Zwifts approach of taking a Vortex, for example, along side a Bkool trainer and seeing what 'handicap' they need to build in on climbs.

Say for example a bkool user is struggling up a 10% climb and a vortex user of the same weight is sitting alongside feeling like its a 6% climb. Bkool should be reducing the Vortex riders speed to force them to push harder to keep up with the Bkool user. Effectively forcing them to go into a higher gear or cadence in order to keep up. Obviously they should be making the downhills equal as well, which is what they are hinting at with the update.

 

[RickB]

Still, like I said before - Bkool doing an update at official Live Chaingang Ride time with no advance notice?!! Don't they know who we are??

Heads will roll,

Bill and I are flying over the Spain next week to call an emergency Board meeting with them to warn them not to cross the Cyclechat crew again.

 

[theboxers]

They really do need to start taking Zwifts approach of taking a Vortex, for example, along side a Bkool trainer and seeing what 'handicap' they need to build in on climbs.

Say for example a bkool user is struggling up a 10% climb and a vortex user of the same weight is sitting alongside feeling like its a 6% climb. Bkool should be reducing the Vortex riders speed to force them to push harder to keep up with the Bkool user. Effectively forcing them to go into a higher gear or cadence in order to keep up. Obviously they should be making the downhills equal as well, which is what they are hinting at with the update.

This is how my classic used to behave on the up hill sections because of my registered weight. Above 6% most of the time I would be getting blue numbers that were, in some cases, only 20% of my actual wheel speed. To increase the speed in any meaningful way would have needed a serious hike in power, that I could not provide

 

[gbrown]

Still not 100% clear from the comment "The inertia when starting a climb or descent, and the speed that it generates" that this means non Bkool trainers will simulate free-wheeling down a slope (it may just mean the initial inertia), so I guess I'll have to try it out to confirm.
Geoff

Not clear at all, and very skeptic.

I'm afraid you were right to be sceptical!

I have just hooked up my KICKR to a Windows PC and updated the bkool simulator. and still managed to pedal slowly down an 11% decline at less than 4mph!

My old Bkool Pro would have accelerated up to about 15 times that speed!

Very disappointed and frustrated...

I guess what they have tinkered with is the initial momentum you can carry into a slope, but that is like fixing the bar tape when the wheels won't go round!

Geoff

 

[bridgy]

I'm afraid you were right to be sceptical!

I have just hooked up my KICKR to a Windows PC and updated the bkool simulator. and still managed to pedal slowly down an 11% decline at less than 4mph!

My old Bkool Pro would have accelerated up to about 15 times that speed!

Very disappointed and frustrated...

I guess what they have tinkered with is the initial momentum you can carry into a slope, but that is like fixing the bar tape when the wheels won't go round!

Geoff

Ah, that is disappointing

 

[Rob_H]

I hope the update also makes other trainers a level playing field going uphill... In particular Tacx Vortex users that go uphill very fast with very low wattage. #justsaying

I rode a goat stage this morning to test, and unfortunately the vortex still has a distinct advantage. It's pretty frustrating. I cancelled my premium membership until they can get this fixed. I did feel like the transitions between gradients were smoother after the update. Hopefully they will get this fixed, it's far from impossible to do, Zwift seem to be doing a great job of leveling between trainers.