Tent recommendations

[willem]

Hi Louise,
I can see your arguments. If you want something bigger for not much more weight, I think the Vaude Power Lizard is the one to look at if you are not too tall (but my friend who used one in Norway is actually one of these tall Dutchmen and he thinks it is fine). It is 1.1 kg. The Helsport Ringstind light 1 is the same weight as the Akto, but a lot and I mean a lot, bigger. You choose. The MSR Hubba Hp at 1.4 kg does not have more floorspace, but almost vertical walls and a high roof with apparently relatively good ventilation. As for packed size, I keep my tent outside the panniers, because the tent is bound to be wet and dirty. The Helsport Rondane packs very small (short pole pieces), and the same applies to the Ringstind.
As for alcohol stoves, you are dead right that the Trangia 27 is heavy. But it is also a very good stove for cooking nice real meals from fresh ingredients. I at least am not going to countries like France or Italy to only eat freeze dried ready meals. See here for the Clikstand, with some as yet unanswered questons on my part: http://www.hikinginf...passaround.html The Caldera Cone is another even lighter alcohol stove, but also even less suitable for real food. These are stoves for US weekend warriors who hike into the mountains for a long weekend, taking freeze dried meals that they only need to dissolve in water and heat (grrrrr...).
Hard choices, but I am sure your trip will be great, whatever you choose. And you are dead right that quality camping gear is an excellent investment. And camping is so beautiful. Enjoy,
Willem

 

[willem]

As for hotels etc: the weight penalty for camping with light gear is some 3 kg at most: 1 kg for a sleeping bag and mattress, just over 1 kg for a tent, and just under 1 kg for stove, pots and fuel. So there is no reason not to camp, provided you keep it light.
Willem

 

[andym]

Hi I really do agree with you on this Willem which is why my initial thoughts were towards the bigger but "only" a Lb heavier Laser rather than the lighter and smaller Laser Competition. However I have been told by Andrew S that the pole length of the Laser is awkward for carrying on a rack compared to the Competition and the Akto whilst undoubtably likely to be much more comfy than the Comp isn't bigger enough to justify the additional weight penalty for me. I equate it to being able to carry another item eg the mattress " for free". I am prepared to put up with a flappy, noisy plastic coffin to sleep in for ease of portage as once I'm asleep I won't notice! I don't relish the thought of spending a long evening stuck it it if it's raining though- but that would hold true anyway and even with a slightly bigger sturdier feeling tent.

I have a LaserLarge (which I assume is larger than the Competition) Yes the poles are a bit long, so it doesn't fold down really compact, but I manage to fit the tent lengthwise on my rack without too much trouble. The extra room more than makes up for any inconvenience on the carrying front. So I wouldn't rule out the Laser on this ground alone.

I must admit that my trade-off would be the other way round: if you gave me the choice between a tent that is easy to carry but a pain in the arse if you are stuck in it on a rainy day vs a tent that is slightly bulkier (as is the LaserLarge) but more spacious I would go for the more spacious.

Having said all of that I'm a bit intrigued by some of the thinking coming out of the US where there seems to be a bit of a tendency back towards light, well-ventilated single-skin tents. OK a "well-ventilated" tent is not what you want in the Scottish Highlands, but if you are only planning to cycle in the summer in warmenr countries then there could be something in it.

I also have a certain amount of sympathy with Dave Davenport's view. If you have never camped before, it may make more sense to get something cheaper (and inevitably a bit heavier) so you can work out what you want in your next tent. I know that sounds a bit wasteful (although if the tent is in good nick you can probably eBay it). But most of us work out through a process of trial and error what works for us and what doesn't work. Decathlon do good medium weight tents (and I would highly recommend their "ultralight" range of sleeping bags and sleeping mats).

As for stove recommendations I need to look into that as well. Alcohol fuelled is the only sort I fancy unless someone has a compelling argument against. I like simple and easily available. Are you saying I could use a Clickstand burner with the trangia pots etc and the windshield in a sort of mix and match arrangement which would work out lighter than the Trangia 27 kit (which I think was 720g for the lightest version from memory with the mini being 330g ). Sorry to be thick about this but I've only ever stayed at youth hostels with the bike and done no camping so I really haven't a clue!

Bear in mind though, that while alcohol is easier to get hold of, gas can be more efficient (especially if you get one of the newer generation of heat exchanger stoves from Jetboil or what's theirnames in Sweden), so on a longer tour gas may be a lighter alternative. (I know I will bring down the wrath of the Trangia Taliban on my head for saying this but) also there are plenty of lighter alternatives to Trangias (eg Caldera cone) have a look at backpackinglight.co.uk for the alternatives. There's nowt wrong with Trangias, and there are lots of happy campers with them, but consider the alternatives too. And when it comes to alternatives, IME a wood gas stove is well worth considering - again check out backpackinglight.co.uk

 

[willem]

In real life the weight differences between stove types are paled into significance by the logistics of fuel acquisition. How sure can you be that you can find your fuel the next days, or do you need to buy it now, just in case? This is where alcohol shines (in France). Wood is even lighter, unless you need to hoard it because supplies are insecure. I have a 1 litre bottle of alcohol for my stove in a Bikebuddy under the down tube of my bike.
W

 

[andym]

In real life the weight differences between stove types are paled into significance by the logistics of fuel acquisition. How sure can you be that you can find your fuel the next days, or do you need to buy it now, just in case? This is where alcohol shines (in France). Wood is even lighter, unless you need to hoard it because supplies are insecure. I have a 1 litre bottle of alcohol for my stove in a Bikebuddy under the down tube of my bike.
W

As with everything in life there are swings and roundabouts. My experience in France is that alcohol is most easily available in litre bottles. At a rough guess a litre of alcohol probably weighs as much as, if not more than, a couple of gas cylinders. So there's no knock-out winner.

A lot depends also on how much cooking you are going to do. IME if you are a lazy sod and only want to boil water for coffee in the mornings then a single gas cylinder will last for ages. If you do a lot of cooking then easy availability if going to be more of an issue, and buying alcohol by the litre much less of an issue.

If you do go for gas, get an adapter for camping gaz puncture cartridges (whatever psmiffy says about M. Bricolage).

 

[P.H]

For a tiny weight penalty, the TN Voyager Superlight (1.54kg) would seem like luxury compared to the Lasers;

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type/Tents/Superlite_Tents/Voyager_Superlite_Green.html

If you buy any TN tent, did you know you can get a 30% trade in?

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Information/Tent_Trade_In.html

 

[jay clock]

fwiw it is worth my Decathlon tent packs down TINY. 40cm and fits fine in my Ortliebs

 

[willem]

Interesting Terra Nova offer indeed. Thier Voyager ul is a very nice tent, and it is extremely stable in high winds. The bad news is that it is an uncompromisingly "inner first" pitching tent. That means that when it rains when you are pitching it or when you are taking it down, the inner will get wet. My Hilleberg and Helsport tents have inner and outer connected, so you can pitch both together. If it rains when you need to take it down, you can disconnect the inner, and take it down separately. By the way, the Tarptent Scarp is another possibility.
Willem

 

[TwoInTow]

Quick hijack - Jay Clock, I read your journal on CGOAB and see that you also live in Winchester. I also see that you are very fit! I, sadly, am not, but am looking to increase my rides. I wonder if I could PM you and get some suggestions for good rides around here? 100Km ones are too much for me at the moment, so maybe I'm just beneath your league, but I thought you might know!

Back on the tents: Like the OP I am a total novice camper and did my first tour this summer. We invested in a Hilleberg for us and a cheaper thing from Blacks for the kids. The difference in quality was huge. The ventilation in the Hilleberg was great, so there was very little condensation in the mornings, and it was totally comfortable to be in even on the day when it rained all morning, and all 4 of us had to sit in there and play cards. The kids' tents suffered from loads of condensation and for some reason it was really difficult to tension the tent so that the outer wasn't touching the inner anywhere by mornings. Eventually we got the hang of it, but you had to be super careful, whereas the Hilleberg just seemed to work. Also, the tent got very stuffy really quickly... As the kids were kind of rough with the tent, I'm happy to have got a cheap one for them, but also very happy to have taken the plunge on an expensive one for us.

 

[willem]

I am similarly impressed by Hilleberg (but Helsport is as good, and almost as expensive). Our Keron 4 GT family tent survided 10 years of abuse, and a lot of sunshine (with more rest and play days family tents are not taken down as often, so get a much higher UV exposure). After those ten years some zippers were beginning to fail, but what killed it was the UV damage to the flysheet. I think that was a good run for the money. Now that the kids have their own tents, we bought a smaller Nammatj 3 GT for ourselves (my wife does not share my weight obsession). Again, the quality is fantastic, and even the roughest weather means nothing to it.
Willem

 

[3tyretrackterry]

I appreciate peoples attitude towards weight but will 700-1000 grams really make that much difference and also is it worth paying the sometimes vast amounts of money needed to save this weight.
I have followed this thread but will freely admit to not having massive experience with cycle camping though have carried my home on my back enough times to hopefully have some valid input

has the OP considered some of the adventure racing tents if she really needs lightweight and what about a goretex or similar bivvy bag or hooped bivvy.

i am asuming the tour is a fairly steady one no super massive climbs or long hard days in saddle as it is the OP first tour so it maybe wiser to try a cheaper slightly heavier tent to make sure she knows what she wants. If i have read wrong i apologise.
It is not my aim to cause an argument just put an idea or two into the mix

also is the tour solo or with a group and to the OP you have a year plus to prepare so you may not need to go as light as possible.( am trying to be diplomatic here)

 

[Ticktockmy]

I also use the Terra Nova Laser competition, I find it a idel tent for my Cycle touring and also for backpacking. When I first bought it and erected it in my garden,I thought OMG that will never stand a spiders fart let alone any really storms. How wrong it has proven, I have used it all through last winter, it has stood you to snow high winds and hard rain, and never let me down. its bad points at its dammed noisey, as it flaps about because the Material is so thin. the Pegs that come with it are ok if camping on a smooth lawn. A nice point is that it fits inside of my pannier ok. If I am going to a campsite which I am using as a base from which I will cycle out from each day I use a Vaude Hogan which is slightly more bulky, but has more room and and has to travel on top of my panniers. but that too seems to be bomb proof.
Hope that helps Tent wise

 

[willem]

My view is that in temperature Europe you can go down to about 13 kg without feeling deprived of important comforts. You could still have a spacious tent like the Helsport Ringstind 2 Light, a stove and pots/pans for cooking fresh food, clothing that is warm enough until late autumn and at some elevation in the summer. You would also have some decent looking clothing for when you are not cycling. Below 13 kg you will have to downsize to a much smaller tent, take a more Spartan cooking system, and leave home some of the clothing. If you do all that, 11 kg is quite easily achievable. However, I for one am not convinced I want to give up the comforts brought by those last 2 kg.
Willem

 

[andrew_s]

Another option along the lines of the Laser Comp / Akto / Power Lizard is the Tarptent Scarp 1


Entrance both sides, between the Laser Comp and Akto in weight, available from www.sackundpack.de in germany if you don't want to order from the US

 

[P.H]

 The bad news is that it is an uncompromisingly "inner first" pitching tent. That means that when it rains when you are pitching it or when you are taking it down, the inner will get wet. 

That was my major concern when I bought a inner first TN Solar 2.2 three years ago.  In practice it's been a complete non issue.  The inner tent material (Same as the Voyage UL) has some moisture resistance and with a bit of planning is only exposed for seconds.  The advantages of a geodesic design and a taught inner far outweigh any perceived disadvantages.  Just try and pitch away from those flapping tunnel tents