Thanking Drivers

[Dogtrousers]

If you're being consistently undertaken on a motorway, that's usually an indication that you're in the wrong lane and should move over.

Unless the lanes go to different destinations (normally indicated on a gantry). Although this situation doesn't normally last for very long, just in the run-up to junctions. But in normal driving, yup ... move left. Default lane should be the leftmost, move over only to overtake.

 

[Rooster1]

I choose to continue to thank those that stop at a zebra crossing for me.
I will shout and gesture at motorists that sail through.
I will also thank car drivers who overtake me after patiently waiting to do so.
I will shout and gesture at motorists that do hurried, dangerous close passes.
Make sense ?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If you're being consistently undertaken on a motorway, that's usually an indication that you're in the wrong lane and should move over.

I agree except that I was doing the same speed (60-65) as the other cars in that lane and the middle lane was doing 55-60 or less - hence I was overtaking traffic in the middle lane consistantly
The only reason people undertook me was that there were gaps in the traffic in the middle lane - but if I had moved left I would be catching up the traffic in the middle lane and would want to move out again within a minute or so
And I am pretty sure the traffic in the outside lane would not have just let me in - except of course that they should have done the same thing themselves!

Often I was actually going slower than the outside lane traffic - but only because I had just been undertaken and, because the gaps in the middle lane were quite small, when they moved into the gap I had left I was then far too close to them - hence had to slow down. In 2 cases the car pulled in so close I actually had to brake - which I try to never do on a motorway!

Basically these people undertook me - then pulled in FAR too close into a gap that was barely 2 seconds before they pulled into it - then could not pull away from me as the car ahead was actually going the same speed as me

anyway - sorry - end rant

 

[yello]

If a pedestrian waves at an empty crossing, does anyone see it?

 

[tyred]

If a pedestrian waves at an empty crossing, does anyone see it?

Yes, the nosey old bag behind the twitching net curtains.

 

[theclaud]

I ate my lunch by a Zebra crossing in the city centre (Swansea) the day before yesterday. It's this one. It's the busiest of three similar crossings on the the most direct E-W traffic route through the city centre. Now, it's not a pretty street but it's been through a lot of appalling traffic schemes and the latest is a huge improvement on the pedestrian environment of previous iterations. Note that the sightlines are very good in terms of enabling drivers to read and anticipate pedestrian behaviours. I was there a little over half an hour. I offer a few observations for the purposes of the thread, with obvious anecdotal evidence caveat...

• Almost all drivers stop at the crossing when legally required to do so (i.e. when someone has moved onto a crossing).
• However, the majority of drivers do not stop in anticipation of pedestrian movement, but wait until pedestrians are signalling their intention to cross by standing at the crossing and waiting/looking right and left. The zebra equivalent of amber-gambling, if you like. Quite a lot of drivers come to abrupt halt rather than slowing down before the crossing. Many move off before the crossing is clear.
• I reckon the ratio of Thankers to Non Thankers is somewhere between 60/40 and 70/30, if you include any kind of acknowledgement of a stopped driver such as a cursory nod.
• Enthusiastic Thankers (wave AND smile) are a minority, but a substantial one. There's a high correlation between this behaviour and using a phone while crossing. Solo crossers thank more than pairs or groups.
• Disabled/mobility impaired people are not generally effusive thankers.
• People who perform a lot of Thanking have a tendency to speed up / rush across the crossing.
• The vast majority of drivers do not overtly acknowledge the thanks. It's all grazie and no prego.
• Not a single driver thanked a pedestrian for waiting at the kerb.
• I didn't witness any gestures of aggression towards pedestrians, but a lot of drivers wore impatient expressions, and most looked miserable. Not as miserable as drivers trying to pass a group ride on Ditchling Beacon, but considering the amount of goodwill they were getting in terms of waving, smiling, and nodding from pedestrians, they were a right bunch of surly bastards.

 

[HMS_Dave]

I ate my lunch by a Zebra crossing in the city centre (Swansea) the day before yesterday. It's this one. It's the busiest of three similar crossings on the the most direct E-W traffic route through the city centre. Now, it's not a pretty street but it's been through a lot of appalling traffic schemes and the latest is a huge improvement on the pedestrian environment of previous iterations. Note that the sightlines are very good in terms of enabling drivers to read and anticipate pedestrian behaviours. I was there a little over half an hour. I offer a few observations for the purposes of the thread, with obvious anecdotal evidence caveat...

• Almost all drivers stop at the crossing when legally required to do so (i.e. when someone has moved onto a crossing).
• However, the majority of drivers do not stop in anticipation of pedestrian movement, but wait until pedestrians are signalling their intention to cross by standing at the crossing and waiting/looking right and left. The zebra equivalent of amber-gambling, if you like. Quite a lot of drivers come to abrupt halt rather than slowing down before the crossing. Many move off before the crossing is clear.
• I reckon the ratio of Thankers to Non Thankers is somewhere between 60/40 and 70/30, if you include any kind of acknowledgement of a stopped driver such as a cursory nod.
• Enthusiastic Thankers (wave AND smile) are a minority, but a substantial one. There's a high correlation between this behaviour and using a phone while crossing. Solo crossers thank more than pairs or groups.
• Disabled/mobility impaired people are not generally effusive thankers.
• People who perform a lot of Thanking have a tendency to speed up / rush across the crossing.
• The vast majority of drivers do not overtly acknowledge the thanks. It's all grazie and no prego.
• Not a single driver thanked a pedestrian for waiting at the kerb.
• I didn't witness any gestures of aggression towards pedestrians, but a lot of drivers wore impatient expressions, and most looked miserable. Not as miserable as drivers trying to pass a group ride on Ditchling Beacon, but considering the amount of goodwill they were getting in terms of waving, smiling, and nodding from pedestrians, they were a right bunch of surly bastards.

Sadly, i am not willing or able to sit at a zebra crossing for 30 minutes to support or counter your report.

A few points to raise however.

There are litter bins near the zebra crossing, which may not be clear to a motorist whether a pedestrian is intending to cross or approaching the bin. Note the right side, the bin looks closer to the crossing than it actually is, despite not being far away and slowing down in anticipation is wise by the motorist and although not a mandatory requirement, a pedestrian signalling their intention to cross is not at all unreasonable as they can be sure they have been seen. People including myself, flag down buses to ensure that they are seen at bus stops, which is also not a mandatory requirement.

A driver nodding, waving or gesturing to a waiting pedestrian could be seen as a false acknowledgement for a pedestrian to cross, with disastrous consequences.

Drivers looking miserable and wearing impatient expressions to me seems a bizarre observation. What does an impatient expression look like from say 10ft away at the side of the road and behind the glass of a car? rolling eyes? twitching moustache?

 

[400ixl]

So basically common courtesy had no negative effect, but some positive. Who'd of guessed.

 

[yello]

Has anyone, whilst driving, approached a crossing where somebody is hovering. You're not sure what they're doing so you slow... for them to step back and wave you on. They might even be on a mobile.

Loads of stuff can happen. Sometimes people are just a bit thoughtless. I wouldn't use a single example of anything to judge everyone else.

Still, there's thoughtless as a pedestrian and then there's thoughtless as a car/van/truck driver. (And - shock horror - thoughtless as a cyclists! Yes, I know!!) Be careful out there folks, and show some attention.

 

[simongt]

Or the lass that walked in front of me in city traffic and then said she would walk in the road if she wanted to. I thought 'Try declaring that when you're under an SUV with two broken legs and a crushed pelvis - !'

 

[HMS_Dave]

Or the lass that walked in front of me in city traffic and then said she would walk in the road if she wanted to. I thought 'Try declaring that when you're under an SUV with two broken legs and a crushed pelvis - !'

Reminds me of my late Grandad. He'd stick is walking stick out in front of him and just walk across the road with a pipe in his mouth with the sound of horns going and tyre screeching. We can laugh now, but at the time he drove people mad!

 

[yello]

For all I've said, I do acknowledge (and I think most others would too) that vehicle drivers take to the road with a sense of privilege that is often not given to them by the law. I suspect most us as pedestrians, cyclists and indeed drivers have encountered this at some time, in some form or another.

I remember many moons ago (so many moons ago in fact that I think Adam had not yet been given their cowboy suit) when I lived in East London and used to cycle to university in central London. I was cutting across standstill traffic in Shoreditch (this was a time when there where only rats in Clerkenwell's empty work spaces, and the Hoxton hipsters where yet to be even a yearning in the loins of their parents) A driver wound down his window and simply said "no tax, no insurance". It baffled me then as this was the first time I'd heard that yet-to-be mantra. I reflected upon it, and obviously remember it still. Yes, he was undoubtedly pissed off by being stuck in traffic and perhaps envied that I could simply weave across it. But it also reflected a sense of entitlement he thought was given to him by virtue of him paying 'road tax' (and let's not have that debate) and insurance. It told me he thought I had fewer rights than him to be there.

That is the case still today. Vehicle drivers almost routinely make such assumptions, over one another even. T'aint 'right' is it?

Which brings us the question (partly) posed by the OP - how do we go about correcting that assumption of right? As I've inferred in numerous posts, in this and other threads, I'm not an 'in your face' kind of person. My short tempered and verbally abusive father unintentionally taught me how to seek the placatory path. Some might call it cowardice, I call it self protection. So I'm by no means an activist. But I do admire, and acknowledge the need for, people to take up that role - even when I might disagree with them. I'm thinking of all fields of activism here; Extinction Rebellion to Mary Whitehouse (and her NZ kindred spirit Patricia Bartlett - now there's a biopic) etc. We need activists. They highlight where we are and show us where we could be (where they believe we should be) I further accept that we also need sometimes/always to offend and disrupt if we want change.

So, yes, I see that thanking drivers merely offers confirmation (unintentionally though it may be) to them that they have a right that, by law, they don't actually have. We are unwittingly supporting the status quo. To change that, we need to rattle those cages.

Will I start giving the finger to a driver who stops for me to cross the road? Hell no! I'm way to timid to engage in that sort of behaviour! But I can see why someone might. Neither would open aggression be my chosen method. I'm much more inclined to take the 'lead them to the water, even if they don't drink' path. But by whatever method, I would like to see the vehicle drivers assumption of right to be at least challenged, ideally dissolved.

 

[yello]

As a related adjunct, my wife told me that when she was taking driving lessons (coincidentally in Swansea) her driver instructor told her that pedestrians always have right of way at road junctions (though not motorways) pedestrian crossing or no. So if a pedestrian steps off the curb, has started to cross the road, then a car is expected to stop - though I'd guess there are relative 'duties of care' at play here too.

But, as we were in the process of crossing the Edgware Road in central London, I wasn't about to put that to test.

 

[Punkawallah]

Drivers should give way to “pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning”, so does not apply those who just step out as you drive along.


Unlike my wife, who’s of the opinion she can cross without checking as ‘they will see me’.

 

[yello]

We can all have a fascination for debating the minutiae that means we lose sight of the context or bigger picture. I guess that could be advantageously used (like a more subtle and less provocative 'dead cat' strategy) for either good or bad ends, if needs be. Or unwittingly triggered... with throwaway adjuncts for example.

But, yes, that was the circumstance I was in.