The bakers' thread

[glasgowcyclist]

Belatedly adding the photo of the loaves I made the other day and mentioned up thread. The baked one is walnut & parmesan sourdough and the one in the banneton is crusty Italian herb & pecorino.

Sorry, I don't have a photo of the finished herby one as I, erm, ate it. All of it.

 

[Hugh Manatee]

I need a bit of advice. Occasionally at this time of year and rather more often in Winter, as a Sunday dinner I cook four large Yorkshire puddings in Victoria sponge tins.

These get filled with roast potatoes, parsnips and a myriad of other veg as well. My son is especially fond of them and as he is now 6'2" with a 28" waist, I don't suppose they do too much harm as a treat.

Trouble is getting them all to rise. Three of the four rise wonderfully with 10cm sides not unusual. The forth one looks like a cross between a limp discus and a dog biscuit.

I think it has to be a cold spot in the oven. Odd as it is a fan version. Any other ideas?

 

[Reynard]

I need a bit of advice. Occasionally at this time of year and rather more often in Winter, as a Sunday dinner I cook four large Yorkshire puddings in Victoria sponge tins.

These get filled with roast potatoes, parsnips and a myriad of other veg as well. My son is especially fond of them and as he is now 6'2" with a 28" waist, I don't suppose they do too much harm as a treat.

Trouble is getting them all to rise. Three of the four rise wonderfully with 10cm sides not unusual. The forth one looks like a cross between a limp discus and a dog biscuit.

I think it has to be a cold spot in the oven. Odd as it is a fan version. Any other ideas?

That's entirely possible - each oven has its own idiosyncrasies. I know mine has...

Only other thing I can think of is that if you take the tins out of the oven at the same time before you pour the batter in, the fat and batter in the first tin cools down too much before it goes back in the oven - especially since you are using sponge tins.

 

[annedonnelly]

I've been on a breadmaking course this morning. Managed to get a photo before I start eating it all...

If anyone is in this area I'd highly recommend the tutor at Northumberland College.

 

[C R]

I think it was @Reynard that complained about the cost of rice flour. I got this today from an Iranian shop

This is a small pack, but you can get bigger ones. If you can't find an Iranian shop, Turkish or Kurdish shops tend to carry some persian stuff too.

 

[Reynard]

I think I paid £2.50 for half a kilo...

But thanks for the heads up about alternative sources. Don't have any such locally, but will invariably run across some when out and about.

 

[C R]

I think I paid £2.50 for half a kilo...

But thanks for the heads up about alternative sources. Don't have any such locally, but will invariably run across some when out and about.

Ah, that's cheaper than the one I found, the pack in the photo is 150 grams for 1.59 squids.

 

[Tin Pot]

You people might know this - what’s the difference between supermarket/mothers pride bread and sourdough?

Can’t really put my finger on the taste difference either.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I managed to neglect my starter fairly badly in the recent heat so I didn't make a sourdough at the weekend. The starter is recoverable but will need a couple of feeds before it's ready again.

Instead, I made a lovely soda bread with manchego, cheddar and oats. It's really tasty, especially toasted.

The other dough was a mixture of white spelt, wholemeal rye and white bread flours, with poppy seeds. The recipe was for 16 rolls but I changed that to make 5 rolls (lunches) and a 2lb loaf with the remaining dough. This is rather tasty too.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

You people might know this - what’s the difference between supermarket/mothers pride bread and sourdough?

Can’t really put my finger on the taste difference either.

I'm not sure if you're being serious here!

Supermarket bread is industrially processed pap with a list of ingredients as long as your arm; all sorts of additives, preservatives, enhancers and other fakery to prolong that 'soft' feel that is mistaken for freshness. It is generally tasteless.

Check the label on your next shop loaf and see the stuff they put into the humble loaf. The worrying thing though is that if you bought it from an in-store bakery, they're not required to list all these ingredients! This only adds to the con trick that your supposedly getting a freshly made loaf.

From mixing all these ingredients to removing the finished product from the oven can be as little as 45 minutes in total. That's a forced system designed to churn out as much of the product as quickly and cheaply as is possible.

In contrast, sourdough is made with four ingredients; water, flour, salt, time. The fermenting process can be several days or at least overnight. You end up with a bread that has flavour, structure, nutritional value, and is easier to digest. (Some people who have self-diagnosed as having a wheat intolerance have found they can happily eat sourdough.)

The flavour is dependent on a number of factors but typically it will have a sharp or sour tang to it. The degree to which this is present is affected by the type of starter used, how it's fed, how long the fermentation was & so on. Of course, you can chuck in all sorts of ingredients to make a sourdough of your choice rather than sticking with the bare version.

They are, in all respects, at opposite ends of the bread spectrum.

 

[Reynard]

Couldn't have put it better @glasgowcyclist

Even my bread-in-a-hurry (which still takes around 4 hours) has bags of taste.

My most recent loaf is a hybrid - started out as a sourdough, also with a bit of a neglected starter, which meant that the levain (with 1/3 of the flour) took ages to get going. As I was by then a bit short of time (and bread) I wanged that into a yeasted bread-in-a-hurry loaf and ended up with a very nice loaf of bread. Make up was 150g whole rye, 150g wholemeal, 50g rolled oats and 250g white bread flour. And a heaped tablespoon of caraway seed.

 

[Tin Pot]

I'm not sure if you're being serious here!

Supermarket bread is industrially processed pap with a list of ingredients as long as your arm; all sorts of additives, preservatives, enhancers and other fakery to prolong that 'soft' feel that is mistaken for freshness. It is generally tasteless.

Check the label on your next shop loaf and see the stuff they put into the humble loaf. The worrying thing though is that if you bought it from an in-store bakery, they're not required to list all these ingredients! This only adds to the con trick that your supposedly getting a freshly made loaf.

From mixing all these ingredients to removing the finished product from the oven can be as little as 45 minutes in total. That's a forced system designed to churn out as much of the product as quickly and cheaply as is possible.

In contrast, sourdough is made with four ingredients; water, flour, salt, time. The fermenting process can be several days or at least overnight. You end up with a bread that has flavour, structure, nutritional value, and is easier to digest. (Some people who have self-diagnosed as having a wheat intolerance have found they can happily eat sourdough.)

The flavour is dependent on a number of factors but typically it will have a sharp or sour tang to it. The degree to which this is present is affected by the type of starter used, how it's fed, how long the fermentation was & so on. Of course, you can chuck in all sorts of ingredients to make a sourdough of your choice rather than sticking with the bare version.

They are, in all respects, at opposite ends of the bread spectrum.

I’m with you, in spirit. Bare with me, I’ll catch up.

Water, flour and salt? So sourdough is just “normal” bread then? I though there was something special that made it have the name, but it’s basically same as say a bloomer..or does that have sugar in?

 

[Reynard]

Yes and no...

Ordinary bread is made with proprietary bakers' yeast (saccharomyces cerevisiae) whereas sourdough is made with yeasts captured from the natural environment - each sourdough culture is pretty well much unique in its colonies of yeasts and bacteria.

 

[Tin Pot]

Yes and no...

Ordinary bread is made with proprietary bakers' yeast (saccharomyces cerevisiae) whereas sourdough is made with yeasts captured from the natural environment - each sourdough culture is pretty well much unique in its colonies of yeasts and bacteria.

Ah, same ingredients but the yeast gives the different flavour...okay, makes sense

I have family in Germany where apparently it’s normal practice to keep a yeast colony alive in the kitchen for regular baking.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I’m with you, in spirit. Bare with me, I’ll catch up.

Water, flour and salt? So sourdough is just “normal” bread then? I though there was something special that made it have the name, but it’s basically same as say a bloomer..or does that have sugar in?

Sourdough uses the naturally occurring yeast that is present within the bag of flour you have bought from the shop. When you take a little of that aside, place it in a tub and add water, the moisture encourages the yeast to multiply and feed on the flour. Same goes for the naturally present lactobacillus bacterium, which is partly responsible for the yogurt/acidic tang of the sourdough.
There is no commercial yeast, dried or otherwise (like you get in those wee sachets) used in sourdough, only a natural leaven as described above.

Your traditional bloomer will not be made this way and will use some form of commercial yeast, be it compressed, dried or whatever but it will be added as a separate ingredient. Such yeast is engineered to produce predictably fast-rising bread so that you don't need to wait overnight or longer for a loaf.
And there is no sugar in a bloomer, at least not in my bloomers. (ooh err Mrs)