The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Brandane]

without legislation to force companies to do the right thing bike will not make safety improvements.

This might have been mentioned before in this thread, but I will say it again - Cycling is NOT dangerous!

 

[Brandane]

I've had several accidents whilst riding motorcycles and not once did I hit my head.

You've gone some way to answering your own question there. I've been riding pedal bikes for over 50 years and have had numerous accidents. I have injured hands, arms, hips, shoulders, knees.... pretty much everything APART FROM my head. And I do not wear a helmet. Your natural reactions prior to hitting the ground will do all they can to protect your head by putting out hands, arms etc..

 

[Brandane]

I'm not aware of any standards

You didn't read @mjr 's reply to you a couple of pages back then. EN1078 is the standard.
Quote from RoSPA site... Wow, so as long as it withstands a fall from 1 metre at 12 mph, that's fine...

The main purpose of a cycle helmet is to prevent or reduce the extent of injury to a cyclist’s head during a collision. Therefore, the safety of the helmet must be considered. Cycle helmets must adhere to standard EN1078, which states that a helmet must be designed to withstand an impact similar to an average rider travelling at 12mph falling onto a stationary kerb-shaped object from a height of one metre. To determine whether the helmet meets these standards, the helmet will go through a number of tests, looking at helmet construction, field of vision, shock absorption and the retention system. To ensure that your helmet meets this standard, look for a CE marked EN1078 sticker.

 

[classic33]

I’m not sure I understand the physics/mechanics of this. Is the effect described anywhere?

The only connection the brain has, within the skull is the spinal cord. It sits inside the skull in a fluid* dampened enviroment. Normally not touching the skull.

Bringing the head to a sudden stop, hitting something hard enough for it to hit the skull, leaves it moving("bouncing") within it's fluid filled environment in the skull.

*Cerebrospinal Fluid

Described in plenty of places under head impact effect on the brain. I'm describing what I've been told is the cause of the problem. Side effect of epilepsy, and head impacts with solid objects.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/traumatic-brain-injury/symptoms-causes/syc-20378557

 

[mjr]

You've gone some way to answering your own question there. I've been riding pedal bikes for over 50 years and have had numerous accidents. I have injured hands, arms, hips, shoulders, knees.... pretty much everything APART FROM my head. And I do not wear a helmet. Your natural reactions prior to hitting the ground will do all they can to protect your head by putting out hands, arms etc..

And I've been riding over 40, something like 17 of them (1996 to 2013) using a helmet, and in a completely unrepresentative one person study, I only hit my head in the helmet-using period, except for a tree branch in 2013. In my reckless younger days, I face-slammed the floor running a few times and occasionally even walking, but not cycling, not even sliding down the ungritted roads feet first after parting company with my road bike on the way to school. Yet helmet wearers frequently pop up showing the results of their latest ground-head failure. Make of that what you will. Maybe it doesn't apply to anyone else.

 

[newfhouse]

The only connection the brain has, within the skull is the spinal cord. It sits inside the skull in a fluid* dampened enviroment. Normally not touching the skull.

Bringing the head to a sudden stop, hitting something hard enough for it to hit the skull, leaves it moving("bouncing") within it's fluid filled environment in the skull.

*Cerebrospinal Fluid

Described in plenty of places under head impact effect on the brain. I'm describing what I've been told is the cause of the problem. Side effect of epilepsy, and head impacts with solid objects.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/traumatic-brain-injury/symptoms-causes/syc-20378557

I understand the anatomy reasonably well for a non medic. It was the suggestion that somehow brain vibrations caused by an impact persist for six months that I queried. Obviously injuries can persist for months or more.

I think we agree that current helmets offer little in the way of protection against serious brain injury, or at least any effect, beneficial or otherwise, is lost in statistical noise.

 

[classic33]

I understand the anatomy reasonably well for a non medic. It was the suggestion that somehow brain vibrations caused by an impact persist for six months that I queried. Obviously injuries can persist for months or more.

I think we agree that current helmets offer little in the way of protection against serious brain injury, or at least any effect, beneficial or otherwise, is lost in statistical noise.

I've never taken them to prevent any brain injury. The sudden stop will have an effect whether a helmet is worn or not.

But the choice to wear one is my decision, not someone else's.

Maybe it's those shouting the loudest against their use are causing the problem. If so many are against them, there must be something for the wearing of them."

 

[Brandane]

I think we agree that current helmets offer little in the way of protection against serious brain injury

I wish those rabid pro helmet types would learn the difference between a head injury and a brain injury. Head injury is no worse than an injury to any other part of the body. Brain injury obviously a different kettle of fish, but my understanding of this matter is that helmets are very limited in their ability to prevent brain injuries. As I posted somewhere else recently, consider a helmet to have the same effect as a bump cap and that might be more in line with it's capabilities.

 

[Rusty Nails]

And I've been riding over 40, something like 17 of them (1996 to 2013) using a helmet, and in a completely unrepresentative one person study, I only hit my head in the helmet-using period, except for a tree branch in 2013. In my reckless younger days, I face-slammed the floor running a few times and occasionally even walking, but not cycling, not even sliding down the ungritted roads feet first after parting company with my road bike on the way to school. Yet helmet wearers frequently pop up showing the results of their latest ground-head failure. Make of that what you will. Maybe it doesn't apply to anyone else.

Simples! Runners and walkers very, very rarely, if ever, wear helmets and therefore there are never any debates about their benefits in those activities. Runners and walkers very, very rarely if ever get involved in discussions over the benefits of clipless either.

 

[Dave Davenport]

The 'debates' between the Nike v Adidas adherents can be pretty voracious though, so I believe.

 

[classic33]

And I've been riding over 40, something like 17 of them (1996 to 2013) using a helmet, and in a completely unrepresentative one person study, I only hit my head in the helmet-using period, except for a tree branch in 2013. In my reckless younger days, I face-slammed the floor running a few times and occasionally even walking, but not cycling, not even sliding down the ungritted roads feet first after parting company with my road bike on the way to school. Yet helmet wearers frequently pop up showing the results of their latest ground-head failure. Make of that what you will. Maybe it doesn't apply to anyone else.

The helmet, an inanimate object, caused you to hit your head whilst cycling!

The only time I've hit my head, whilst cycling, helmet or not, was when I got hit, side on by a car.

 

[Milzy]

Some of us have to wear them on club rides so it’s pointless not wearing when out solo. To go out without one would be cool in the summer but I’d feel vulnerable.

 

[mjr]

Some of us have to wear them on club rides so it’s pointless not wearing when out solo. To go out without one would be cool in the summer but I’d feel vulnerable.

1. I don't see why that makes it pointless.

2. Better clubs exist without dress codes. All CUK ones, for starters.

3. Feeling vulnerable is not necessarily a bad thing if it deters taking unreasonable risks like spilling down Winnats Pass (to lift something from the other exchange).

4. Ultimately, whatever you choose, it's your head. I rode with a guy in a long blonde wig a while ago. That's his choice. It wouldn't be mine.

 

[Cycling_Samurai]

Some of us have to wear them on club rides so it’s pointless not wearing when out solo. To go out without one would be cool in the summer but I’d feel vulnerable.

I know exactly what you mean.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

But if you have a head injury whilst not wearing a helmet then please post about it the details would be appreciated.

I’ve suffered a head injury three times in the past year, the last one caused a deep cut and had me dizzy for a while. All three were caused by a car... my own.

I had opened the boot and leaned in to get something out and then stood up, smacking my unprotected head off the boot lock. The last time it was hard enough to buckle the legs from under me, so I replaced the gas struts which had lost their pressure.

Of course, I could have simply decided to always wear a helmet while getting stuff out of the car but it seemed a better idea to address the root of the problem.