The danger of motorists creating their own box junctions

[Brandane]

Is it still "filtering" if there is a cycle path painted on the road? A lot of cyclists believe it isn't. The person turning across other road users' path should make absolutely sure the way is clear.

If there is a clearly marked separate lane (for cyclists, buses or whatever) then it's not filtering, and the turning traffic should be extra careful to make sure it is clear. Personally, I still wouldn't be relying on them doing that and I would treat it like any other junction. It's not much consolation when you're lying on a mortuary slab knowing that it wasn't really your fault.

 

[subaqua]

I am always incredibly cautious about filtering on the left, I very rarely do it, especially when junctions are involved. Add in something that blocks my vision and it becomes a total no-no.

Sadly the segregation bollocks we have in London puts you in just that position . Because you can't get out of the protected lane to filter on the right. But it is much safer apparently. ( it isn't and there are lots of incidents happening on CS 2 )

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

I once had a car part way past me slam on the anchors to let a car on the left pull out onto a dual carriageway.
Some people are really only meant to ride on buses!

 

[martint235]

I was in a cycle lane/path by the way, so i assumed that was my area and no vehicle is allowed to enter that area unless invited to do so by the cyclist themselves. I know vehicles have to cross a cycle lane to turn right but if they can do so without looking out for cyclists in that lane then cycle lanes are not safe!!

Even if you've got a solid white line (mandatory cycle lane) you're still going to have to use caution and you're not permitted to "invite" a motorist into it. A dashed white line is meaningless really or where I live it means "suitable for long term parking"

 

[Dogtrousers]

The person who opens the gap and invites the other driver to turn across the lane should check their wing mirrors for traffic passing them, especially if the person making the turn is forced to rely on their judgement.

That's not necessarily always possible as far as opening the gap goes. In traffic that's just inching along, the driver may have left the gap, and declined to cover the turning, a minute or so earlier when the cyclist was a good way away, and not visible. I often do that when driving, and SE London would soon grind to a halt without this and other similar mangroves[1]

But when it comes to making an invitation ... that's when it gets tricky. The turning driver has to exercise extreme caution and be prepared to ignore the invitation. You can't let other people make your decisions for you. I don't think the inviting driver should use their mirrors, because I don't think they should be making the explicit invitation in the first place (but of course they do in the real world). Just leave the gap, and let the turner make their own decision.

[1] manoeuvres but my spell checker prefers mangroves, and so do I.

 

[ozboz]

As I remember it , though a long time ago , whilst undergoing an HGV driving and training course. We were to told never in any circumstance wave on ,signal or encourage another road user to perform any manoeuvre , because it could if proven that you could be partly or wholly responsible for any collision, and similarly , do not manoeuvre on the say so of another road user ,make your own deliberations then make your manoeuvre

 

[sidevalve]

Hmmmmm...... If YOU are filtering up the inside of traffic, is it not up to YOU to make sure the way is clear; and that includes looking out for traffic turning across your path? There is a bit of responsibility on both sides here, but if there had been a collision in the circumstances you describe, I would have to say the main fault was with you. I know you say you slowed down and were looking for traffic, but clearly your view was obstructed more than you thought!

As above. You couldn't see if the way was clear, on your own admission the van blocked your view - however you assumed it was clear and would remain so and just carried on.

I was in a cycle lane/path by the way, so i assumed that was my area and no vehicle is allowed to enter that area unless invited to do so by the cyclist themselves. I know vehicles have to cross a cycle lane to turn right but if they can do so without looking out for cyclists in that lane then cycle lanes are not safe!!

Irrelevant in the circumstances - couldn't see yet you carried on at the same pace. If you can see speed up, when you can't slow even more. The driver turning may not have even been aware that there was a cycle lane there. Cycle lanes like motorways are safe if treated properly and not with the 'I have right of way in all circumstances and stuff everybody else' attitude. They are a tool to be used and like all tools they require some care.

 

[Tin Pot]

If there are long tailbacks then you can understand people letting traffic turn through, but what really get my goat is when they do it for no reason when they should continue on their way as per the Highway Code. Unexpected uneccesary braking, causing others behind them to brake, wasting fuel, wasting time, wasting energy, etc.

 

[ozboz]

The vehicle crossing the path of another turning right is at fault should there be a collision , regardless, that is how it is perceived ,

 

[vickster]

The vehicle crossing the path of another turning right is at fault should there be a collision , regardless, that is how it is perceived ,

Yes, but when cycling collisions potentially hurt the cyclist (sometimes a lot), so best ride defensively regardless if at all possible in traffic

 

[winjim]

We've discussed a similar thing with a car flashed out of a side road into the path of a filtering motorcyclist. Police response was "it's just one of those things, he's got to pull out sometime."

 

[vickster]

Why it's useful for cyclists (and other road users) to have some sort of insurance / legal cover Not that the driver pulled out on me, he just cocked up the overtaking *sigh*

 

[alecstilleyedye]

An experienced driver or cyclist knows that any unusual manoeuvre where assumptions are being made and vision is obscured, is a recipe for an accident, especially where you've got big differentials in the speeds of the vehicles involved..

indeed. even in a bus lane, be VERY wary of gaps in the traffic to the right that could conceal a car wanting to turn right that does so as it sees no bus coming…

 

[HLaB]

I was taken out like that a couple of years back in London. I was very cautious, perhaps too cautious and slowed to 3-5mph. Was in the gap for a couple of seconds at least when a driver decided to enter that gap . Front wheel was ripped out of the forks and bent in two. Other than a bruise to my shoulder and a crack in my helmet though, fortunately I was in a good shape and after spending a night a a mate's/party I borrowed a wheel and cycled back to Peterborough the next day.

 

[subaqua]

Yes, cycle lanes are not safe. Painting a line on the road does not make cyclists safe.

Neither does segregation , a good mix of proper infrastructure, robust prosecution and good standards of road use from ALL users.

Miss any of them out and it is akin to buying the wife flowers when caught with the babysitters . i.e. Merely a token that is useless in sorting out the problem