The Helmet Debate

[doog]

Jeez, those Limoux cyclists!

he had a full head of hair and looked good on his Bianchi

I looked like a sack of shoot

 

[DresdenDoom]

... I looked like a sack of shoot

Is that a fact or an opinion?

 

[snorri]

toured Spain and France bottom to top
Everyone on a bike had a helmet on... apart from one bloke down near Limoux

I'm quite amazed to hear that, usage in France must have increased dramatically in the few years since I toured there.
However, your observations in these two countries are not representative by a long chalk, of the rest of Europe.

 

[Red Light]

I suspect you are quite right (no data again unfortunately) that it is quite easy to wear a helmet incorrectly. I'm sure we've all even seen someone wear one back to front!

The point I was making with my ridiculous argument in my previous post is that there is conflicting evidence of whether helmets are a good thing or a bad thing. I think they are a good thing because I have fallen off my bike twice (no other vehicle involved, high speed or otherwise) and both times my head hit the ground - hard. Both times the helmets were damaged, and I have a preference for damaged helmets over damaged skulls.

There are probably those here who can provide me with statistics that 'prove' that next time I have an accident my helmet will cause my head to be ripped off or my brain to be liquidised. They won't change my mind, because I have a religious belief that helmets are good despite their having a religious belief that they are bad.

This debate has been fun but was only worthwhile if any of the readers has either started or stopped wearing a helmet because of what they have read here. Any takers?

Arfcollins, I'll respond to both your posts in one although I've only quoted one above.

In children there is no evidence that helmets make any difference. Hewson looked at the UK accident and hospital data for children and found that although girls were twice as likely to have been wearing a helmet as boys, they had the same head injury rate. i.e. all those extra helmets made no difference at all. You could of course explain it by the girls taking far more risks when cycling but that would be contrary to general perceptions. Also Tim Gill did a review for the National Children's Bureau of cycling for children and concluded in the helmets section of his report:

"those of us who cycle should be under no illusion that helmets offer reliable protection in crash situations where our lives may be in danger. Neither should we believe that widespread adoption of helmet wearing would see many fewer cyclists killed or permanently disabled. The evidence so far suggests otherwise."​

As for your falling offs, you can show statistically, working from the numbers that do get a head injury and the helmet wearing rates, that the most likely thing by a long way to have happened if you had not been wearing a helmet is this: nothing. Either that or you are a very bad risk taking cyclist who is an extreme outlier on the probability curve for having serious accidents.

 

[Red Light]

I do like that quote LYB, where was it from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_based_evidence_making

 

[Red Light]

I have different figures.

The ones I have are from a US medical centre that looked at helmet wearing.

Not the Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle reknown for making up bogus numbers about helmet wearing? I wouldn't trust their data with a bargepole.

 

[Red Light]

toured Spain and France bottom to top

Everyone on a bike had a helmet on... apart from one bloke down near Limoux

Before you worry about whether to wear a helmet or not I would worry first about keeping your eyes open when cycling and/or your observational powers. There is no way you toured all that distance in Spain and France and only encountered one unhelmeted cyclist.

 

[ufkacbln]

Health and Safety is the new religion. The proponents are the prophets, the agnostics are heretics who must be converted. I say NO to Hi-Viz

The last thing road safety experts and motorists want is anything to do with Health and Safety concepts.

All the H&S systems have a heirarchy of measures which reduce the danger through design, engineering or process before introducing PPE

Take Chichester for instance there is an issue with homeless people being injured whilst crossing a busy dual carriageway to gain access to a Hostel.

Never mind looking at a crossing point, alternatives, reducing the speed limit, "training" the homeless to cross at a safer and better crossing point.

No...... they are all being issued with HiViz!!!!!!!!!

 

[ufkacbln]

Not the Harbor View Medical Center in Seattle reknown for making up bogus numbers about helmet wearing? I wouldn't trust their data with a bargepole.

... but it is by Rivara and Thompson!!!!!!

How could these stalwart's work possibly be suspect?

The reason I like this one is that although it is cynical, you cannot discount their reasoning in a case like this, yet accept them as valid when talking about other aspects of helmet efficiency!

 

[ComedyPilot]

I'm quite amazed to hear that, usage in France must have increased dramatically in the few years since I toured there.
However, your observations in these two countries are not representative by a long chalk, of the rest of Europe.

I totally agree - I have toured extensively round Holland and Germany; helmet use was minimal to say the least in Germany and practically zero in Holland.

Oh, and a lot more people (of all ages) cycle over there.

Our idle (american-influenced) countrymen hide behind the excuse of 'they have always ridden' (Holland) or it's too hilly here (not as hilly as Germany) to avoid physical exercise. And the ones that do ride are bombarded by nanny-state media-driven images of people dressed up like building site labourers to go for 100m rides to the park.

You won't find the helmet (or hi-viz) pushed on the people by any of the govts of Holland or Germany, or by their media, or by peer pressure from an idle, uneducated and brainwashed public.

 

[marafi]

To which again the answer is "mind your own business" I don't give a monkey's toss if you wear a helmet or not, that is your choice and I won't tell you to do so or not do to do so. I extend you the courtesy of believing that you are an adult and can make up your own mind, please extend me ( and others ) the same courtesy?

Why should i mind my own business. Honstely, i think you are misunderstanding the terms of a debate or better yet the role of a debate. Your own courtesy of course it is up to you. Im glad to be wearing a helmet and those who dont it is up to them. Hopefully the typing of this, sounds alot better now.


Anyway, has anyone seen a helmet with strawberries on it? Now that would be a helmet worth having!

 

[ComedyPilot]

http://hembrow.blogspot.com/search/label/helmets

Don't take my word for it.

 

[Red Light]

... but it is by Rivara and Thompson!!!!!!

How could these stalwart's work possibly be suspect?

The reason I like this one is that although it is cynical, you cannot discount their reasoning in a case like this, yet accept them as valid when talking about other aspects of helmet efficiency!

I don't accept anything they say whatever the benefits might be. Their work is just too suspect to trust.

 

[Nantmor]

This debate has been fun but was only worthwhile if any of the readers has either started or stopped wearing a helmet because of what they have read here. Any takers?

I know of people whose view on helmets has been changed by discussion, and then looking at the evidence. I have great respect for them. One guy I argued with on uk.rec.cycling is now a stalwart of cyclehelmets.org.

 

[marafi]

That is a bit different from your first venture into this debate, which included the instruction to wear a helmet.

Yes, it is very different not just abit. Though, if hopefully you read my posts from before i have said that it is up to you. I am just having my own opinion though its funny it has caused such a uproar.

Being the public, the fear would be scared by anyone.