The plane enthusiasts thread

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

DaveReading

Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
Location
Reading, obvs
Those Canadian Starfighters used to be a common sight at - believe it or not - Prestwick Airport in Scotland, where Scottish Aviation (later part of British Aerospace) had a contract to overhaul them during rotations to Europe.

As with other fighters of that era (such as the Hawker Hunter), the Starfighter was designed to have the entire back end removed in order to change the engine, so it wasn't unusual to see them in the hangar in pieces.
 

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
Amazing how the F104 could fly with its distinct lack of wing area.
The wing was very thin and sharp, so much so that it had rubber bumpers on the leading edge when stored.
 

CanucksTraveller

Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Location
Hertfordshire
Thanks to the horrendous loss rate of the F104 Starfighter in crashes, there was a black joke going around in the 70s, it went:

How do you go about acquiring an F104 Starfighter?

You buy a field and wait.
 

DaveReading

Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
Location
Reading, obvs
The "horrendous crash rate" was a bit of an urban myth - Starfighters crashed in about the same proportion as other contemporary fighters.

The main problem was that some nations (mis)used the aircraft in the low-level strike role (for which it was never designed). That meant that the survival rate for ejecting pilots was disappointingly low.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Thanks to the horrendous loss rate of the F104 Starfighter in crashes, there was a black joke going around in the 70s, it went:

How do you go about acquiring an F104 Starfighter?

You buy a field and wait.
There's a bit of local lore about the 104. A USAF plane got into difficulty and had to make an emergency landing at Cranfield. The high landing speed and long run-out meant it quickly ran out of runway and made an awful mess on the landscape.

Some days later an angry farmer type marched into Newport Pagnell nick, dumped a burlap sack on the counter and made a comment along the lines that he didn't appreciate the Americans dumping their rubbish in his fields.

An unsuspecting desk sergeant peered inside the sack to find the pilots head, complete with helmet, inside.

Very skittish aircraft with a relatively small lifting surface meant they were very difficult at low speed, and while stable at higher speed they then had the turning circle of a one legged cat burying a turd on a frozen pond. But make the wings bigger and the single engine wouldn't be able to provide the performance required from the design brief.

As I recall the Germans had the highest attrition rate, not helped by the all too common German foul weather and use in the ground attack role - it was not intended as an all weather fighter and was too unforgiving at low altitude - and lost about 22% of theirs.

However, even the Americans also realised that it was an unforgiving S.O.B, and while it was high performance it had limited range and armament so wasn't much cop at anything other than point defence interdiction. Around 14% of the US planes were lost to accident, which wasn't considered a woeful number at the time but still far worse than aircraft with comparable roles and performance, such as the British Lightning. More viable alternatives soon started to appear in the shape of the F4 (more reliable, stable, genuinely multi-role), and the 104 was retired from US service early than originally planned in 60's, and from air national guard service in the early 70's. The F4 went on to have a far better safety record, and consequently served over twice as long in US service (38 years, finally retiring from the ANG in 1996).

The sad footnote is that the F104 did see combat in Vietnam...and scored no kills, despite combat losses of its own. So apart from setting some altitude, speed, and time to altitude records, it actually was a pretty poor combat aircraft. Shame, because they look so futuriatic and awesome.
 
Last edited:

Dolorous Edd

Senior Member
There's a bit of local lore about the 104. A USAF plane got into difficulty and had to make an emergency landing at Cranfield. The high landing speed and long run-out meant it quickly ran out of runway and made an awful mess on the landscape.

Some days later an angry farmer type marched into Newport Pagnell nick, dumped a burlap sack on the counter and made a comment along the lines that he didn't appreciate the Americans dumping their rubbish in his fields.

An unsuspecting desk sergeant peered inside the sack to find the pilots head, complete with helmet, inside.

Very skittish aircraft with a relatively small lifting surface meant they were very difficult at low speed, and while stable at higher speed they then had the turning circle of a one legged cat burying a turd on a frozen pond. But make the wings bigger and the single engine wouldn't be able to provide the performance required from the design brief.

As I recall the Germans had the highest attrition rate, not helped by the all too common German foul weather and use in the ground attack role - it was not intended as an all weather fighter and was too unforgiving at low altitude - and lost about 22% of theirs.

However, even the Americans also realised that it was an unforgiving S.O.B, and while it was high performance it had limited range and armament so wasn't much cop at anything other than point defence interdiction. Around 14% of the US planes were lost to accident, which wasn't considered a woeful number at the time but still far worse than aircraft with comparable roles and performance, such as the British Lightning. More viable alternatives soon started to appear in the shape of the F4 (more reliable, stable, genuinely multi-role), and the 104 was retired from US service early than originally planned in 60's, and from air national guard service in the early 70's. The F4 went on to have a far better safety record, and consequently served over twice as long in US service (38 years, finally retiring from the ANG in 1996).

The sad footnote is that the F104 did see combat in Vietnam...and scored no kills, despite combat losses of its own. So apart from setting some altitude, speed, and time to altitude records, it actually was a pretty poor combat aircraft. Shame, because they look so futuriatic and awesome.

So, what you're saying is, wings are quite important for an aircraft?
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Well, yeah, I think conventional wisdom is that wings are one of the things the typical buyer looks for when in the market for an aircraft.
 

DaveReading

Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
Location
Reading, obvs
There's a bit of local lore about the 104. A USAF plane got into difficulty and had to make an emergency landing at Cranfield. The high landing speed and long run-out meant it quickly ran out of runway and made an awful mess on the landscape.

Some days later an angry farmer type marched into Newport Pagnell nick, dumped a burlap sack on the counter and made a comment along the lines that he didn't appreciate the Americans dumping their rubbish in his fields.

An unsuspecting desk sergeant peered inside the sack to find the pilots head, complete with helmet, inside.

Great story, albeit entirely fanciful.
 

midlife

Guru
Slightly off topic there's a story about a Delta dagger or Delta Dart that flew around unmanned for a while (pilot ejected) and made quite a good landing in a field :smile:
 
Top Bottom