This cheered me up no end :

[mudsticks]

Perhaps in the long run this planet will thrive once again without human beings, no comfort for us but this one rare and special place in our knowable universe will regenerate one way or another despite our best efforts to destroy it ....

Yes it probably will recover either way.

But personally I'm not ready for the whole 'so let's not even bother trying' apocalyptic attitude that you come across all too often.

Right now , we need to do the best we can, not give up hope just yet, keep at it, even if there's not 100% chance of success, we might mitigate the worst effects .

What gets me is the ones who were climate change deniers last year, are now going "it's all too late" this year

Almost as if they don't even want to try.

 

[woodbutchmaster]

Yes it probably will recover either way.

But personally I'm not ready for the whole 'so let's not even bother trying' apocalyptic attitude that you come across all too often.

Right now , we need to do the best we can, not give up hope just yet, keep at it, even if there's not 100% chance of success, we might mitigate the worst effects .

What gets me is the ones who were climate change deniers last year, are now going "it's all too late" this year

Almost as if they don't even want to try.

Couldn't agree more, but as individuals we have difficulty making our voices heard against the corrupt power of, for example hardwood logging or rainforest destruction sanctioned by governments. l read recently that for the first time our knowable history, the Amazon rainforest has become a net contributor of carbon rather than a net. absorber of same .
This is only one example https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/beef-production-is-killing-the-amazon-rainforest/

 

[mudsticks]

Couldn't agree more, but as individuals we have difficulty making our voices heard against the corrupt power of, for example hardwood logging or rainforest destruction sanctioned by governments. l read recently that for the first time our knowable history, the Amazon rainforest has become a net contributor of carbon rather than a net. absorber of same .
This is only one example https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/beef-production-is-killing-the-amazon-rainforest/

Yup I know, there's some dreadful stuff still happening.

But elsewhere quiet progress is being made.

Not so headline grabbing perhaps.

In my own main field (!) of regenerative agriculture, we're seeing far more interest from the mainstream.

How we operate in terms of building soils, capturing carbon, reducing or eliminating fossil fuel inputs, utilising existing resources, nutrient recycling is gaining credence as a realistic and sustainable way forwards .

Especially now we can show how productive we can be, by enhancing biological, and ecological systems.

Still much to do, of course, but there are occasional glimpses of hope.

They just need to be sustained.
I think public awareness, and a desire for change is building.

 

[woodbutchmaster]

Yup I know, there's some dreadful stuff still happening.

But elsewhere quiet progress is being made.

Not so headline grabbing perhaps.

In my own main field (!) of regenerative agriculture, we're seeing far more interest from the mainstream.

How we operate in terms of building soils, capturing carbon, reducing or eliminating fossil fuel inputs, utilising existing resources, nutrient recycling is gaining credence as a realistic and sustainable way forwards .

Especially now we can show how productive we can be, by enhancing biological, and ecological systems.

Still much to do, of course, but there are occasional glimpses of hope.

They just need to be sustained.
I think public awareness, and a desire for change is building.

It's reassuring to know that some positive effort is being made to make good the damage. I'm sure you are right that public awareness is an important aspect and an internationally known and respected figure like David Attenborough has been a powerful voice to help that process.

 

[woodbutchmaster]

Not trying to be a prophet of doom by any means but this is pretty conclusive for me : https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ssue-stark-warning-over-global-heating-threat

 

[PaulB]

The Oiligarchy are so wealthy, the power they exert still keeps people in denial the same way the tobacocracy had people denying the smoking-cancer link for decades. Funding studies to muddy the clear waters by throwing all the money they can at it.

 

[mudsticks]

Not trying to be a prophet of doom by any means but this is pretty conclusive for me : https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ssue-stark-warning-over-global-heating-threat

Don't get me wrong ,

I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of all this, or the urgent need for action right now.
In fact the urgent action that was needed decades ago ..

Anything but.

I was one of those 'annoying' anti road protestors decades ago, for this very reason.
And haven't stop being involved (and annoying) ever since.,

Its why I run this farm the way I do , why I do most things the way I do.

And why and shall be at the COP with colleagues this November

(doubtless again , being very annoying)

All I'm saying is that we all need to double down on efforts to make some difference.

Its a crying shame it's taken this long for the reality of CC to be the first item on the news agenda.

But we've still got to try to do something.

The Oiligarchy are so wealthy, the power they exert still keeps people in denial the same way the tobacocracy had people denying the smoking-cancer link for decades. Funding studies to muddy the clear waters by throwing all the money they can at it.

Yes they did / still do, and in my view they should be up in court for eco-cide.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Your concern that actions are being watered down is somewhat undermined by your assertion that changing car tyres will make a blind bit of difference to anything.

Two words I thought were etched in every cyclists subconscious: incremental change.

(If you meant it was too late for that then I reluctantly agree)

 

[winjim]

Two words I thought were etched in every cyclists subconscious: incremental change.

(If you meant it was too late for that then I reluctantly agree)

Well yes, much like a crap painted bike lane it does very little to address the actual problem but eases the conscience of the person painting it so they know they've done their bit and they can carry on with their business as usual and it's now someone elses problem.

It's potentially worse than useless.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Well yes, much like a crap painted bike lane it does very little to address the actual problem but eases the conscience of the person painting it so they know they've done their bit and they can carry on with their business as usual and it's now someone elses problem.

It's potentially worse than useless.

So we do nothing? The only real solution is to immediately go back to a pre-industrial revolution level of pollution which isn’t going to happen, although trying to ‘enforce’ it might lead to the destruction of the human race which would probably be good for all the other occupants of planet earth.

 

[winjim]

So we do nothing? The only real solution is to immediately go back to a pre-industrial revolution level of pollution which isn’t going to happen, although trying to ‘enforce’ it might lead to the destruction of the human race which would probably be good for all the other occupants of planet earth.

Changing car tyres is doing nothing, just wrapped up in the illusion of doing something.

 

[mudsticks]

Changing car tyres is doing nothing, just wrapped up in the illusion of doing something.

What we really don't need to do is drag each others mood down, with petty arguments over tyres.

I totally agree let's not pretend we can buy or consume our way out of all this

But there's a very solid reason why XR are very big on mental health support and watchfulness.

I've known a few people who have literally killed themselves over this .
Having been dragged down into a state of hopelessness and despair

I've had to take a step away from it all many times myself over the decades for fear of burn out, and falling into.uttter despondency.

But ultimately Its the guys at the top who do need to make /allow those system changes.

So that doing the ecologically right thing, is the easier , even cheaper option for ordinary citizens .

Our efforts need to be put into pressurising for system change, alongside doing what we can personally do to help.

(My 'bit' is running this farm in as regenerative way as is presently possible, educating others on how to do that, and campaigning with others for change.
Alongside not flying , consuming minimally etc etc..Others will be doing their things)


Ordinary citizens bickering with each other over 'pountless' (or otherwise) individual actions is exactly what the business as usual people want us to do .

We can do better than that, we can work together, not against each other.

If nothing else, that way we learn to be more resilient against the difficulties that are already on their way.

 

[matticus]

What gets me is the ones who were climate change deniers last year, are now going "it's all too late" this year

Almost as if they don't even want to try.

They are both different versions of the same transparent excuse; it's blatantly obvious that such people simply don't want to be inconvenienced.

 

[mudsticks]

They are both different versions of the same transparent excuse; it's blatantly obvious that such people simply don't want to be inconvenienced.

Yes I know, that is indeed blatantly obvious.

Please forgive me for my usage of this forum to express my frustration in their direction.

Best get back to the building soil toil.

 

[woodbutchmaster]

What we really don't need to do is drag each others mood down, with petty arguments over tyres.

I totally agree let's not pretend we can buy or consume our way out of all this

But there's a very solid reason why XR are very big on mental health support and watchfulness.

I've known a few people who have literally killed themselves over this .
Having been dragged down into a state of hopelessness and despair

I've had to take a step away from it all many times myself over the decades for fear of burn out, and falling into.uttter despondency.

But ultimately Its the guys at the top who do need to make /allow those system changes.

So that doing the ecologically right thing, is the easier , even cheaper option for ordinary citizens .

Our efforts need to be put into pressurising for system change, alongside doing what we can personally do to help.

(My 'bit' is running this farm in as regenerative way as is presently possible, educating others on how to do that, and campaigning with others for change.
Alongside not flying , consuming minimally etc etc..Others will be doing their things)


Ordinary citizens bickering with each other over 'pountless' (or otherwise) individual actions is exactly what the business as usual people want us to do .

We can do better than that, we can work together, not against each other.

If nothing else, that way we learn to be more resilient against the difficulties that are already on their way.

I agree with what you are saying (and credit where it is due for your farming methods) . I know that as individuals the challenge to prevent more damage being done to our home seems too big to contemplate. Having said that, the more we air our concerns publicly and the more of us that do so by our actions , the better chance of at least slowing down the otherwise inevitable disaster. Otherwise we are no better than a mouse sitting cleaning its whiskers when it is about to be killed by a cat .