This cheered me up no end :

[mudsticks]

I agree with what you are saying (and credit where it is due for your farming methods) . I know that as individuals the challenge to prevent more damage being done to our home seems too big to contemplate. Having said that, the more we air our concerns publicly and the more of us that do so by our actions , the better chance of at least slowing down the otherwise inevitable disaster. Otherwise we are no better than a mouse sitting cleaning its whiskers when it is about to be killed by a cat .

Yes indeed that's why it needs to be collaborative, cooperative action

Its those two that are the sticking point

There's no lack of scientific or even technological know how

Its political will that's lacking.

We can do very little as individuals, together we can do far more, even if it's only to put direct pressure on the powers that be.

Yes by our spending, when we do it, but words matter too.


Ignoring of course people who say "you can't say anything because you have a mobile phone or whatever .

They're just trying to distract, and muddy the waters

Any powerful tool can be used for good or ill.

 

[Archie_tect]

The first lock-down demonstrated the environmental benefits and showed what we can do when control is enforced... Governments and states can enforce change if they have the bottle to do it... all that's needed is the science to be used as the excuse to enforce the changes... much like the way people accepted the lockdown was good for everyone... you see it can be done very easily.

Certain industries would have to wither away- foreign holidays for one... the aero travel industry is redundant in a pollutant-free world.

Personal transportation is another- scrap the internal combustion engine and ban the use of hydrocarbons for everything except for essential chemical industries.

Gov'ts just need to learn how to manage the consequences. People are very adaptable when change happens quickly.

 

[woodbutchmaster]

Yes indeed that's why it needs to be collaborative, cooperative action

Its those two that are the sticking point

There's no lack of scientific or even technological know how

Its political will that's lacking.

We can do very little as individuals, together we can do far more, even if it's only to put direct pressure on the powers that be.

Yes by our spending, when we do it, but words matter too.


Ignoring of course people who say "you can't say anything because you have a mobile phone or whatever .

They're just trying to distract, and muddy the waters

Any powerful tool can be used for good or ill.

Thats all very true, the world seems full of individuals who would rather do nothing or be in denial for one reason or another. Does the NFU. have a take on the way things are going or are the powers that be keeping their heads down ?

 

[woodbutchmaster]

The first lock-down demonstrated the environmental benefits and showed what we can do when control is enforced... Governments and states can enforce change if they have the bottle to do it... all that's needed is the science to be used as the excuse to enforce the changes... much like the way people accepted the lockdown was good for everyone... you see it can be done very easily.

Certain industries would have to wither away- foreign holidays for one... the aero travel industry is redundant in a pollutant-free world.

Personal transportation is another- scrap the internal combustion engine and ban the use of hydrocarbons for everything except for essential chemical industries.

Gov'ts just need to learn how to manage the consequences. People are very adaptable when change happens quickly.

Yes and after all ,we have our bicycles for personal transport

 

[Archie_tect]

Yes and after all ,we have our bicycles for personal transport

That is a bonus... after all China and the Far East built their economies on the back of the bicycle- we all just have to take a massive step back and accept the inevitable now rather than after 2030.

 

[matticus]

The first lock-down demonstrated the environmental benefits and showed what we can do when control is enforced... Governments and states can enforce change if they have the bottle to do it... all that's needed is the science to be used as the excuse to enforce the changes... much like the way people accepted the lockdown was good for everyone... you see it can be done very easily.

An excellent observation.

As you say, they need "bottle". Or what used to be called Leadership!

 

[woodbutchmaster]

That is a bonus... after all China and the Far East built their economies on the back of the bicycle- we all just have to take a massive step back and accept the inevitable now rather than after 2030.

True, and l have seen with my own eyes some of how it was done. l have spent a lot of time living and working in mainland China and the Philippines . Not sure if our cosy western lifestyle is quite ready for some of what l saw and experienced, it would be quite an eye opener

 

[Illaveago]

Do people need to travel abroad for holidays so much ?
The numbers of planes that used to fly over here pre pandemic during the day were loads. The sky would be milky from their vapour trails. It never used to be like that ! Airlines must be putting hundreds of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each day .
They talk about that we should consume less meat as it impacts the environment . This is due to the way they calculate things . If we produced more of our own food this figure would reduce . They calculated that at the end of the WW2 we produced 90% of our own food . Today we just seem to want to import it and build houses on furtile land .

 

[mudsticks]

Thats all very true, the world seems full of individuals who would rather do nothing or be in denial for one reason or another. Does the NFU. have a take on the way things are going or are the powers that be keeping their heads down ?

The NFU have been procrastinating prevaricating and sidelining the issue for quite some time.

They are fortunately now acknowledging that agriculture is part of the climate change problem ATM, but could also be part of the solution .


Its good they've finally openly and clearly getting on board with this .

Post brexit agricultural and food policy should also be taking into account climate change amelioration, if we can steer it that way .

Ps I'm not a member, nor representative of the NFU .

I'm with a slightly more radical agroecological bunch of hairy farmers, and producers

But the NFU narrative is definitely starting to sound a lot more like ours...
Which is heartening

 

[mudsticks]

Do people need to travel abroad for holidays so much ?
The numbers of planes that used to fly over here pre pandemic during the day were loads. The sky would be milky from their vapour trails. It never used to be like that ! Airlines must be putting hundreds of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each day .
They talk about that we should consume less meat as it impacts the environment . This is due to the way they calculate things . If we produced more of our own food this figure would reduce . They calculated that at the end of the WW2 we produced 90% of our own food . Today we just seem to want to import it and build houses on furtile land .

Yes regarding leisure flights, or any flights for anything other than truly urgent need, such as airlifting in emergencies..
Its wickedly carbon heavy..

I've not flown since the early 90's.

I'm willing to bet I've had much better holidays than many who will insist in jetting off to far flung places.
Its a mindset thing .

And there are people living in the global south who would never expect to fly to the UK for a holiday.

Going by train is much more fun,
albeit more expensive ATM.
That cost structure should reversed imo, presently there's no tax on aviation fuel.

As for the meat tjing..

Well managed herbivores producing milk and meat (who were always here before man made climate change arose) can help sequester carbon into soil, done well. .

Their methane emissions are the default, their internal composting systems feed soil life, which in turn draws down more atmospheric carbon.

So we will need to eat less meat and dairy, but better quality .


I'd agree being solely a plant eater instead of eating industrially produced animal products is a sound choice.

But in the UK we grow really good quality grass..

No avocados, soya, coconuts, almonds etc etc
Its the not the cow, it's the how.

Having said that I respect the views of anyone who doesn't wish to be involved in animal production.

It just needs to be made clear that veganism is not the answer to all of this.
Mixed farming systems that recycle nutrients, both animal and vegetable, work best .

Ok back to the actual doing of it

Practicing what I preach etc etc

 

[Illaveago]

Consumerism doesn't help .
The need to buy something just because it is the latest model or that your present one isn't the right colour or doesn't have the latest gear must change . We throw away too much and also import far too much.
Our hobby of cycling seems to create a lot of waste. Recycling centres seem to always have bikes in it waiting to be scrapped . Some may be damaged but a lot are just discarded.
The old Top Gear programme highlighted one fact of consumerism waste in one of their programmes. They were taking the Mick out of some people . They stated that certain people seem to go to B and Q and then drive straight to the recycling centre. It was done as a joke but it does show how wasteful people are in constantly upgrading or redecorating their homes. There is no need for it .

 

[woodbutchmaster]

An excellent observation.

As you say, they need "bottle". Or what used to be called Leadership!

Do people need to travel abroad for holidays so much ?
The numbers of planes that used to fly over here pre pandemic during the day were loads. The sky would be milky from their vapour trails. It never used to be like that ! Airlines must be putting hundreds of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each day .
They talk about that we should consume less meat as it impacts the environment . This is due to the way they calculate things . If we produced more of our own food this figure would reduce . They calculated that at the end of the WW2 we produced 90% of our own food . Today we just seem to want to import it and build houses on furtile land .

Mind you the population of the UK in 1946 was about 47 million and now it is 67million so now the UK has an extra 20 million mouths to feed and find places for everyone to live, and of course people want to live where there is employment, so the south east of England is a bit crowded .

 

[woodbutchmaster]

l kind of wish l hadn't started thinking about this , just for the hell of it l checked the population density of an area of England knew well Broadland Norfolk pop. per sq. km. 234 compared with Islington Gr. London pop.per sq. km. 16,097.
and l would guess that practically everyone in islington buys their food from a supermarket and those supermarkets have supply chains and import programmes etc, etc. As against Norfolk where of course there are some supermarkets but at least most people will have an opportunity to grow a few veg. if nothing else.

 

[Gillstay]

Changing car tyres is doing nothing, just wrapped up in the illusion of doing something.

I did not say changing tyres, I said they arrive new with them, which is wholly different as it changes peoples perception. They already are helping as standard not having to be induced to change. Besides which i have been driving around on eco tyres for 20 odd years, plus take out the back seats as rarely used, plus lighter oil in the engine which easily gives me an extra 7 miles per gallon. If more did it then we would have less o do to solve the problem.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Mind you the population of the UK in 1946 was about 47 million and now it is 67million so now the UK has an extra 20 million mouths to feed and find places for everyone to live, and of course people want to live where there is employment, so the south east of England is a bit crowded .

But the South East is not a bit crowded. It’s a fallacy. There are some denser populated areas than others, but there’s a huuuge amount of green space too.