This Wiggins incident has brought the numpties out...

[2Loose]

When I moved teams at work I was subject to the usual; Cyclist must RLJ etc. but I recently asked the two car drivers and one motorcyclist to tally up the number of RLJ'ers and other dangerous things they saw while travelling too and from work as I didn't believe what I heard.

So far this week;
17 RLJ's (including one cyclist)
5 road users without lights when they were needed. Two of which were cyclists .

All of them have moaned about driving\parking on the pavement near schools, but I can't recall one sighting of a pavement cyclist that wasn't a child this week <clap>.

I think it has changed their prejudices some what.

 

[benb]

Do you not see what you have done? By making an absolutist overstatement instead of sticking with a patently correct comparison you have yourself taken your argument off track and are now making petty points.

I'm on your side on this: Compared to cars cycles pose very low risk. But "on the whole... no danger" is wrong and will be used against you.

Come off it. If I said there was no danger of being struck by a meteorite, it's obvious what I mean, even the danger is slightly more than none.

 

[PK99]

Come off it. If I said there was no danger of being struck by a meteorite, it's obvious what I mean, even the danger is slightly more than none.

There is a very real danger from being hit by a meteorite, but low risk.

 

[martint235]

The idea that cyclists must clean up their game before motorists will take them seriously simply doesn't add up. (Aside from the fact that motorists pose two thousand times more danger than cyclists) by every measure drivers break more road traffic laws than cyclists. To motorists we are an 'out group'. Motorists hate cyclists and then they use every example of poor cyclist behaviour to justify that hatred. You're looking through the telescope the wrong way. It's not cyclist behaviour which needs to change but motorist attitudes.

I actually agree with most of what you say but I think it's too idealistic.

You want change, you need a lever. Now I'm not saying that if from tomorrow every cyclist behaved like Snow White on a bike, you'd get your lever. What I am saying is that you'll never have your lever for as long as we're perceived (and that's an important word) to be the bad wolf (cos I like mixing and matching my fairy stories).

 

[slowmotion]

Somebody on this forum ( I apologise for not remembering because it was a couple of years ago ) made a very interesting observation about car drivers. He said that some people buy expensive cars to express their status and also because they feel that they are better protected by it. When they see a cyclist happily riding about on a machine that (they think) costs peanuts and affords very little protection, they feel that their values are being challenged having spent so much money. They don't like it all and feel affronted. The person who posted originally put it far more eloquently.

 

[Herbie]

Reminds me of this video from a couple of enlightened members of the British public ...

Andrew

Hey...this Tory government has taxed things like pasties etc..i wouldn't put it past them to target us cyclists

 

[gavintc]

Well, the 'Road Tax' issue is a moot point obviously but I do think cyclists should be registered and display some kind of ID (not sure where on some bikes...).

When there's an accident or a cyclist does something wrong, they can just cycle off and suffer no comeback.

The ONE good thing about the Boris bikes is that they have id numbers displayed on them.

And I presume you would include pedestrians as well. Pedestrians just walk off.

 

[gavintc]

Hey...this Tory government has taxed things like pasties etc..i wouldn't put it past them to target us cyclists

We pay tax on cooked and prepared food, so why not pasties. It might be good for the health of the nation.

 

[Davidsw8]

The speed and volume of traffic in most towns and cities made it impossible?

How about pedestrian crossings & zebra crossings? Failing that, a place where you have a decent view of what's coming. I think even in the most built up of cities with the busiest traffic, you'd have to walk maybe 15 seconds to find such a place.

 

[Davidsw8]

And I presume you would include pedestrians as well. Pedestrians just walk off.

I think that point has been covered, read the thread back...

 

[Nebulous]

They don't like us because we are not them. Like immigrants, public sector workers, private sector workers, people on benefits- whatever. It's discrimination pure and simple. Blind, illogical, irrational, hatred, dressed nicely and wrapped in a thin veneer of road tax and traffic lights.

Lots of groups have tried to comply, to be as law abiding as possible, to control their own members who get angry and upset about it and none of it does or will work. The only thing that will work is substantially increasing numbers of cyclists, with commensurate improved infrastructure. We're in for a few years of attacks and anger before we get there, whatever we do.

25 children a year die as a result of window blind cords. Does anyone care? I'm sure they do, but no-one is seriously talking about banning blinds or taxing them for that matter. It doesn't feature because there isn't a flesh and bone person on top of a window blind, that you can focus all your insecurities on by blaming for everything wrong in your life.

 

[campbellab]

Title of the thread couldn't have been more prophetic from what I've read so far.

 

[400bhp]

Not only are cyclists viewed as an out group by the whole of society they are a minority out group in a society where car ownership and use is normalised, and where cars are seen as conferring status on their owners, and where riding a bike is seen as infantile at best and subversive and utterly inappropriate at worst.

Car drivers are suckered into the idea of the car as an enabler. Of freedom. Of speed. Of choice. But the car can only rarely deliver on these things and even then with strings of anxiety attached. Freedom... will I be able to park when I get there and how much will it cost? Speed.... what if a speed camera catches me? Choice... should I do a u-turn out of this queue now and see if travelling in the opposite direction helps my journey?

Car drivers ride around in their little chariots, kings of their tiny kingdoms, when they come into conflict with other charioteers they reach a compromise, it's what kings do, and only rarely does it boil over into all out war. When a pleb on a bike gets in the way, or is seen to break a law, they react aggressively simply because it is 'their' territory and they 'must' defend it else why are they in a chariot, a power projection of their own egos. (For most drivers their car is the second most expensive purchase they'll ever make so lets not kid ourselves that ego doesn't come into it.)

Sadly a lot of people cycle with a driver mindset. The bike enables them to act out their desire for freedom speed and choice in ways no car can any more. So they jump red lights, ride too fast on pavements and go the wrong way down one way streets and drivers see them do it and go nuts....

Bloody hell, I'd never really thought of it in that way and you're really onto something there. Perhaps your whole explanation goes somewhere to explaining wy there's been a marked increase in cycling.

 

[martint235]

Title of the thread couldn't have been more prophetic from what I've read so far.

Particularly with deep, insightful and informative comments like this.

 

[mickle]

I d

I actually agree with most of what you say but I think it's too idealistic.

You want change, you need a lever. Now I'm not saying that if from tomorrow every cyclist behaved like Snow White on a bike, you'd get your lever. What I am saying is that you'll never have your lever for as long as we're perceived (and that's an important word) to be the bad wolf (cos I like mixing and matching my fairy stories).

i disagree. Whats needed is a big metaphorical stick. With a nail in it.