This Wiggins incident has brought the numpties out...

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martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
I d
i disagree. Whats needed is a big metaphorical stick. With a nail in it.
No doubt.

But back in this world I'm afraid we need levers and we haven't got any at the moment.

I don't think we're that far apart, it's just how to achieve what we both believe is right that differs

Edit: I forgot to add, the biggest lever, in this country at least, is public opinion. Win that and you'll win the media war. Win that and you'll get the attention of the Govt. I don't believe this can be done until cyclists have a positive PR. And I don't believe that will happen until the guy I work with doesn't think all cyclists jump red lights.
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
How about pedestrian crossings & zebra crossings? Failing that, a place where you have a decent view of what's coming. I think even in the most built up of cities with the busiest traffic, you'd have to walk maybe 15 seconds to find such a place.
Why should pedestrians be penned and herded and regulated to cross in places intended to inconvenience them for the convenience of drivers?
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
It is not as driver but as pedestrian that those things make me go nuts!

One of these days I really am going to just brace and stand my ground when some twat on a bike heads toward me on a pavement or crossing.
I do so. The score for this year is gregped 4 - 1 numbtylondontwatsonbikes The last incident was a 1 - 1 draw. He fell off and I fell over, and I wasn't, on that occasion trying to have him off. I blame my recent weight loss for his ability to knock me down.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
So they can cross the road and live?
On the whole, they (or we because we are all pedestrians) tend to cross the road where we like and live. There is a small minority of road crossings that result in injury or fatality compared to the daily total achieved without drama.
 

Davidsw8

Senior Member
Location
London
On the whole, they (or we because we are all pedestrians) tend to cross the road where we like and live. There is a small minority of road crossings that result in injury or fatality compared to the daily total achieved without drama.

Okey doke :thumbsup:
 

classic33

Leg End Member
They don't like us because we are not them. Like immigrants, public sector workers, private sector workers, people on benefits- whatever. It's discrimination pure and simple. Blind, illogical, irrational, hatred, dressed nicely and wrapped in a thin veneer of road tax and traffic lights.

Lots of groups have tried to comply, to be as law abiding as possible, to control their own members who get angry and upset about it and none of it does or will work. The only thing that will work is substantially increasing numbers of cyclists, with commensurate improved infrastructure. We're in for a few years of attacks and anger before we get there, whatever we do.

25 children a year die as a result of window blind cords. Does anyone care? I'm sure they do, but no-one is seriously talking about banning blinds or taxing them for that matter. It doesn't feature because there isn't a flesh and bone person on top of a window blind, that you can focus all your insecurities on by blaming for everything wrong in your life.
EU regulations were changed this year with regards to venetian blinds. There can no longer be any risk of a person getting strangled or entangled in any part of one. You may have noticed vertical blind seem to be coming more popular of late.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
It is not as driver but as pedestrian that those things make me go nuts!

One of these days I really am going to just brace and stand my ground when some twat on a bike heads toward me on a pavement or crossing.
Done that & said prat on a bike went into the side of a bus shelter. His other choice was to go onto the road.
 

Nebulous

Guru
Location
Aberdeen
EU regulations were changed this year with regards to venetian blinds. There can no longer be any risk of a person getting strangled or entangled in any part of one. You may have noticed vertical blind seem to be coming more popular of late.

I was using it to make a somewhat exaggerated point, not to get involved in a discussion on it, but I wish that were the case.

Regardless of any changes there are millions of legacy blinds that are still as much of a hazard, so surely you are trying to say there isn't any risk of getting entangled in a new one? Vertical ones can have looped cords as well, so could be just as much of a risk.

I'm not aware of the changes to legislation, I thought work was ongoing on a voluntary basis? Can you give me a link to it? I got a report on this at work recently, which is why I remembered the figure, but I don't have access at home.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
I was using it to make a somewhat exaggerated point, not to get involved in a discussion on it, but I wish that were the case.

Regardless of any changes there are millions of legacy blinds that are still as much of a hazard, so surely you are trying to say there isn't any risk of getting entangled in a new one? Vertical ones can have looped cords as well, so could be just as much of a risk.

I'm not aware of the changes to legislation, I thought work was ongoing on a voluntary basis? Can you give me alink to it? I got a report on this at work recently, which is why I remembered the figure, but I don't have access at home.
http://www.conservatoryblinds.co.uk/blinds-article/562/eu-standards-on-blind-cord-safety/
No acrobat reader on this so not able to open the pdf document. Sorry.
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
That's people being killed though, is that what it takes for a change to happen? How about the people injured or even those people knocked over and aren't hurt that much or who have their car damaged? There must be tons of incidents that go unreported because the victims know nothing can be done without any way of ID'ing the cyclist.

Fatalities were a starting point, no doubt there were x serious injuries for every death. I dislike the conflation of death with serious injury (KSI). A low speed but hard fall from the bike put me in serious injury territory on 03 July - a pinned hip and six days in hospital. Apart from a residual limp I'm back to normal. Statistically though I'm equivalent to an amputation or life changing head injury.

As for cyclists damaging cars (and scarpering) what are the real numbers? My only experience is my son scraping a parked car with his bar ends at age 13. We left our name/address under the wiper and paid up.
 

veloevol

Evo Lucas
Location
London
Well, the 'Road Tax' issue is a moot point obviously but I do think cyclists should be registered and display some kind of ID (not sure where on some bikes...).

When there's an accident or a cyclist does something wrong, they can just cycle off and suffer no comeback.

The ONE good thing about the Boris bikes is that they have id numbers displayed on them.
Tell me you're taking the piss please.
 

Nebulous

Guru
Location
Aberdeen
http://www.conservatoryblinds.co.uk/blinds-article/562/eu-standards-on-blind-cord-safety/
No acrobat reader on this so not able to open the pdf document. Sorry.

Thanks - it looks somewhat confused to me. It talks about this being voluntary, but also a requirement to provide a safe product. It also says that it needs to be signed off by all EU countries before it takes effect.

So there is a requirement to fit a safety device, even a hook to tie a cord up, but they are still allowed to sell looped cords.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Let's sum this thread up.

Drivers on the whole behave badly, But hang on they are in a metal box and unlikely to get hurt.
Cyclists behave in different ways, some good, a lot bad.
Peds, behave in different ways. Some good, some bad, some downright idiotic.

The above is I believe accepted. So I go back to my previous post. I think everyone on here wants the roads to be safer for cyclists but that involves change.

To change, you need a lever. There's no point saying "The law says". Yes we know that but it's generally disregarded by both motorists and cyclists. There's also no point saying "Motorists hurt people more than cyclists do". We know that too.

It's the lever. And you won't get that lever while public perception of a cyclist is a an RLJing, pavement riding, country lane hogging nuisance. Yes, I take a lane frequently but that's my right. We need the public on our side. The public don't see me and you. They see the RLJer. Game over. Seriously. Until the cyclist wins the public support this argument is null and void.
 
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