Titanium or Carbon for new road bike ?

[Blue]

Folk get very caught up Frame material when it is only a very small part of a bike. IMO Geometry has a greater effect than any material. Tyre pressure has more of an effect than Frame Material ime

Fair enough - which is why I told the tale of my 2 bikes and mentioned a desire for a different geometry for comfort.

The trouble I have with tyre pressure is that the roads around my way are so bad with pot-holes, thorns, glass etc that I have to keep the pressure up to aid 'P' resistance and so suffer a drop in cushioning. It's always a compromise, eh - but then the drop in rolling resistance means I can shift like the wind when I get a nice bit of smooth tarmac!!

 

[Disgruntled Goat]

The Sportive will not be 1999....

To quote the Planet X site
"...Confirmed prices aren't available just yet, but they're Planet-X so let's just say prices are set to blow the Ti market wide open..."

clcik me

Please read my post including links. I never said the Sportive was £1999. Brant said he would do a custom for £1999

 

[MichaelM]

Please read my post including links. I never said the Sportive was £1999. Brant said he would do a custom for £1999

Actually, he says Pricing starts at £1999 for a double/triple butted model, made to measure, just for you. Get in touch if we can make your dream come true.

I reckon that comes in as a Lynskey level two frame: level 2: houseblend £1550 full custom £2000 as level 1 but full double and triple butted cold worked tubeset, approximate frame weight 1250 grams

Looks like he's coming in the same as Bikelab (like for like - £1 cheaper in fact!).

It's the Sportive that grabbed me though.

 

[Disgruntled Goat]

Actually, he says Pricing starts at £1999 for a double/triple butted model, made to measure, just for you. Get in touch if we can make your dream come true.

I reckon that comes in as a Lynskey level two frame: level 2: houseblend £1550 full custom £2000 as level 1 but full double and triple butted cold worked tubeset, approximate frame weight 1250 grams

Looks like he's coming in the same as Bikelab (like for like - £1 cheaper in fact!).

It's the Sportive that grabbed me though.

Why do you reakon that? The Level One is also double and triple butted. He may be offering a Level Two frame but that is far from clear.

So let's assume he is offering custom rebranded Lynskeys for £1 less. What's the point? Why not get a Lynskey?

 

[MichaelM]

Why do you reakon that? The Level One is also double and triple butted. He may be offering a Level Two frame but that is far from clear.

Bikelab

road:

level 1: houseblend £1400 full custom £1600 oversized tube, horizontal top tube, 31.6 i/d seat tube, non integrated headtube, curved/ flattened seatstays, custom dropouts and brake bridge

level 2: houseblend £1550 full custom £2000 as level 1 but full double and triple butted cold worked tubeset, approximate frame weight 1250 grams

No mention of butted tubes on the level 1 frame. I think it's pretty clear what you're getting from On One.

So let's assume he is offering custom rebranded Lynskeys for £1 less. What's the point? Why not get a Lynskey?

But you are getting a Lynskey! Whether you want On One or Lynskey on it is down to the individual (but I accept your point).

It seems the Sportive will come in a few hundred cheaper than an off the peg Lynskey badged Lynskey, and cheaper than a far east/Russian made frame. That's got to be good for us

 

[Disgruntled Goat]

Bikelab

road:

No mention of butted tubes on the level 1 frame.

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/R120.php



It seems the Sportive will come in a few hundred cheaper than an off the peg Lynskey badged Lynskey, and cheaper than a far east/Russian made frame. That's got to be good for us

Yes, as I said in my previous posts, it's a damn good deal. I don't expect the Sportive frame to be the same spec as the Level One Lynskey though. From the pictures I can see it doesn't have the custom drop-outs and brake bridge.

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

I have posted this before regarding all the main materials used in frames that you may find it useful, you do of course find many different versions of each type but here are some very general guidelines that I have tried to put across in a plain and simple manner, they are my opinions based on 26 years as a club cyclist and 20 years as a specialist cycle retailer:

Aluminium Alloy: Often simply referred to as ‘Alloy’ Light, cheap, reasonably robust although not as comfortable when compared to the others, which is why most will have carbon forks. Alloy supposedly has the most performance drop off, which in fairness only really effects a racing cyclist where a few percent reduction in performance can make the difference (especially in their heads) of winning or coming second, in reality that applies more to the older lighter frames when Pro’ riders used extremely light versions (now most pro teams use Carbon), the modern budget frames use a heavier, more robust alloy and are of course aimed at a different style of riding. They are now the most common option in the mid range and upwards frame sets, fairly robust, as they will normally dent as apposed to crack. Normally the price dictates a purchase of a frame built in alloy, that does not mean that you will not be satisfied, you will see quite a few older frames still being ridden by club cyclists who find them perfectly adequate, plus many don’t have any complaints re’ comfort or performance drop off. Although most refer to these frames in general terms as ‘alloy’ if we are being pedantic then strictly speaking this is wrong, as steel is an alloy of carbon and iron, titanium is normally aluminum and vanadium, for example Airborne (now Van Nicholas ) use mainly 3% Aluminium, 2.5% Vanadium and 94.5 Titanium in most of their models.

Carbon: Comfortable, very light, efficient at transferring energy into propulsion as the material does not flex as much as other materials. Although strong they can be delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon will often crack, a friend of mine had a Colnago Carbon C40 that he had just finished cleaning in the garden, he stepped back to admire his pride and joy, just out of reach it caught a gust of wind, fell over, caught the chain stay on the rockery and cracked. As such not normally the choice for audax/touring bikes where robustness may be preferred. Most common rider is either a racing cyclist or someone who still likes to ride a racing bike down the cafe on a sunny Sunday morning, especially when you are feeling a little bit frisky in the speed department (as I get older this happens less, normally one week in May and one in August, except of course when I have a tail wind), plus it can be rather pleasing to sit with your mates remembering how good you once was and how super your new bike is; no harm in that, it's what cycling is all about

Steel: Comfortable, very durable (if built correctly) with low performance drop off with age. These days only really used by club cyclist when the frame is built by a craftsmen, you are really paying for the workman ship. Many cyclist like to know who built their bike, they like the fact that they are having something built often to their own specification, you can personalise your frame with your own braze on items, light bosses, extra bottle bosses etc, you can even chose your own colour. In the past all top quality frames were purchased this way, as it was how you got exactly what you wanted, both in quality and especially frame size. The old diamond shape frame being less adaptable interms of variations in riding position than the modern sloping top tube frames; even Lance Armstrong uses an off the peg frame size. Although I fall into this category, as in uses as steel frame, not Lance Armstrong, I have to admit that modern off the peg frames are now so good both interms of production quality and the flexibility that the modern geometry gives you to achieve the perfect riding position, that the necessity to have a bike made to measure is less of an issue; but I still like them, I have some that are twenty years old and still going strong. Normally purchased by traditional types who still relate to when this was the way things were and if it was good enough then well......Ok Ok, I admit riders like me.

Titanium: Becoming more popular, virtually no performance drop as they don’t even rust, comfortable, light, yet robust. Performance wise not quite as responsive as carbon or alloy (alloy when new that is), although really it is that not far off, some pro riders now even use Titanium like Magnus Bakstedt a former Paris Roubaix winner, especially in races where comfort can become an issue, for example over the cobbles of the Paris Roubaix, as riders are bashed about so much it can lead to fatigue. The down side is that Titanium is very hard to work/build with; so most don't! On the upside because of this the workman ship simply has to be of top quality and it shows, Titanium frames do look and are very well made. Most common used when someone wants a fast, responsive, light comfortable (ideal for longer day rides/audax), yet robust bike and of course where price is not so much of an issue.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials

VN Frame materials

Caree frame-materials

 

[Van Nick]

Carbon:Although strong they can be delicate, where other materials dent, Carbon will often crack, a friend of mine had a Colnago Carbon C40 that he had just finished cleaning in the garden, he stepped back to admire his pride and joy, just out of reach it caught a gust of wind, fell over, caught the chain stay on the rockery and cracked.

This is what really puts me off carbon frames.

Thanks very much for this contribution Paul.

 

[stevenb]

The views above regarding frames is pretty much correct IMO.

I do however feel a little disheartened by the somewhat negative biased opinion of Carbon Fibre frames.

I feel that they are an excellent design. Granted....they can crack if abused or dropped awkwardly (dont drop it...look after it!) but the benefits (not mentioned above) are that you get a super responsive frame. Sometimes they can be a little too stiff for some riders. They can also offer good flexibility though and whilst stiff they can be super responsive and offer excellent tracking and holding on the road over rough and smooth surfaces. Carbon frame quality is also a factor here. 'Look' for example make some very nice frames using Carbon lugs for joining. The '585' model is an excellent example.

As the old addage goes....you get what you pay for.....that applies with anything IMO.

Choose your frame on your riding style. All of the above can be excellent depending on what you use it for. Have a test/feel for a few examples of each type.
My 2p.

 

[munnser]

my sunday titanium bike superb!!!!!

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

Although the general views of each type of material I listed earlier apply I would add that modern frames if designed and built correctly should last a long time, carbon included, many riders have indeed used carbon frames over thousands of miles with no problems.

Manufacturing processes have also improved significantly over the last 10 years as has the investment into R & D that many designers/manufacturers put into their products, these two influences mean that warranty issues are now far less common, one of my duties over the last twenty years in cycle retail has been warranty returns, although there is no such thing as the perfect product I am pleased to say that frame failures have never been as low as they are now

Different materials have different vulnerabilities to fatigue and as such the designer/manufacturer through sufficient R & D should compensate accordingly, this applies especially to carbon

The following Video maybe of interest, I don't know who it is doing it and for sure they are Pro Titanium but none the less may interest some.

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

The views above regarding frames is pretty much correct IMO.

I do however feel a little disheartened by the somewhat negative biased opinion of Carbon Fibre frames.

I feel that they are an excellent design. Granted....they can crack if abused or dropped awkwardly (dont drop it...look after it!) but the benefits (not mentioned above) are that you get a super responsive frame. Sometimes they can be a little too stiff for some riders. They can also offer good flexibility though and whilst stiff they can be super responsive and offer excellent tracking and holding on the road over rough and smooth surfaces. Carbon frame quality is also a factor here. 'Look' for example make some very nice frames using Carbon lugs for joining. The '585' model is an excellent example.

As the old addage goes....you get what you pay for.....that applies with anything IMO.

Choose your frame on your riding style. All of the above can be excellent depending on what you use it for. Have a test/feel for a few examples of each type.
My 2p.

 

[Disgruntled Goat]

Above all the most important thing is to ride as many diferent bikes as you can, with the same tyre pressure if possible. Some bikes will 'speak' to you, others will leave you cold. Why? That is hard to say - a combination of materials, components, geometry, aesthetic and a whole host of sub-concious prejudices. Enjoy and follow your heart.

 

[Blue]

The following Video maybe of interest, I don't know who it is doing it and for sure they are Pro Titanium but none the less may interest some.[/FONT]

On the other hand, a friend of mine dropped a spanner in his garage. Said spanner knocked against the top-tube of his Ti bike and left a nice little dent.

 

[Noodley]

On the other hand, a friend of mine dropped a spanner in his garage. Said spanner knocked against the top-tube of his Ti bike and left a nice little dent.

Was he up a ladder?

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

A tube being run over by a vehicle is a different test to a tube receiving in impact from something like a spanner, with an impact like that I would expect Ti, steel and Aluminium Alloy frames to dent, carbon would probably crack.

Paul Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

On the other hand, a friend of mine dropped a spanner in his garage. Said spanner knocked against the top-tube of his Ti bike and left a nice little dent.